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DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

NotMcKenzie

International Debutant
Walsh also ended up with 72 wickets in Lillee's backyard. Lillee played in Walsh's backyard and ended up with 0 wickets.
Of course, Lillee played only a single test in the W.I., and that with injury, whereas Walsh played 25 in Australia.





As an aside, Lillee did take 23 wickets at 28.39 in five W.S.C. Supertests in W.I., but it's his own fault that that is not reflected in his career stats.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Are you arguing the exception should unduly influence the rule?
Who says it's the exception? It was just an example. I haven't run the numbers but for bowlers I doubt that overseas stats are much, if at all, worse than home stats on average.

Other than the obvious ones (eg, Spinners from Asia, Slow Seam/Swingers from England)
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
You would think Asian pacers would have better away averages than home. Turns out that is true for Zaheer Khan but not true for Kapil Dev, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Imran Khan, Fazal Mahmood and Shoaib Akhtar.
 

Slifer

International Captain
Well there in ends my participation in this thread. Yep I'm butt hurt. Walsh led wi in 94 in India sans Ambrose . Along with Jimmy Adams, he was the main reason why wi managed to draw that series where other teams at that time were being smashed in India. And he (plus others) virtually helped to end vinod kambli's career. Then you have the 99 series vs oz at home. Dude was excellent home and away except in Australia. Much fewer holes than many people who'll be ranked above him but oh well. Only 4 gold performances??!! Anyway, this is DOG's system and which obviously isn't close to being the be all and end all. Peace!!!
 

Migara

International Coach
You don't have to take this so seriously. This is just one guy's effort at standardising player ratings. No one is claiming that it is the definitive be all and end all of the best players, just like the "Cricket web votes" thread, just because a player comes out on top doesn't mean they are the definitive best player ever. If Murali doesn't win it's not a slight against him.
Meh, only shows the insecurities you have.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well there in ends my participation in this thread. Yep I'm butt hurt. Walsh led wi in 94 in India sans Ambrose . Along with Jimmy Adams, he was the main reason why wi managed to draw that series where other teams at that time were being smashed in India. And he (plus others) virtually helped to end vinod kambli's career. Then you have the 99 series vs oz at home. Dude was excellent home and away except in Australia. Much fewer holes than many people who'll be ranked above him but oh well. Only 4 gold performances??!! Anyway, this is DOG's system and which obviously isn't close to being the be all and end all. Peace!!!
It's a lot to do with strike rate. Anderson struck at a better rate than Courtney. Ashwin better than both.
 

Migara

International Coach
You would think Asian pacers would have better away averages than home. Turns out that is true for Zaheer Khan but not true for Kapil Dev, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Imran Khan, Fazal Mahmood and Shoaib Akhtar.
Asian pacers knew how to bowl on home tracks. For example Vaas was a fine exponent of using slow low pitches to his advantage. He swung it in to right handers and if hit on pad, usually that will result in an LBW because of low bounce. Then later in the innings he reverse swung (once again low bounce helps here), and bowled cutters. But on quicker bouncier pitches Vaas found it wanting because his stock ball kept bouncing over the stumps. This was the case in Australia, SAF and England. But against same oppositions at home Vaas has some scything spells of swing bowling. Even pacemen are product of their environments. So we may find some seamers doing well on their tracks, despite being unresponsive.
 

vcs

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Well there in ends my participation in this thread. Yep I'm butt hurt. Walsh led wi in 94 in India sans Ambrose . Along with Jimmy Adams, he was the main reason why wi managed to draw that series where other teams at that time were being smashed in India. And he (plus others) virtually helped to end vinod kambli's career. Then you have the 99 series vs oz at home. Dude was excellent home and away except in Australia. Much fewer holes than many people who'll be ranked above him but oh well. Only 4 gold performances??!! Anyway, this is DOG's system and which obviously isn't close to being the be all and end all. Peace!!!
I remember Adams' stonewalling from that series, we called him Padams.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
No.22

Joel Garner (West Indies) 823

Quality Points: 756
Career Points: 67




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtDcuGh1RdA

Career: 1977-1987
Wickets: 259
Gold Performances: 0
Best Performance: 6/60 vs. Australia at Port of Spain 1984
Silver Performances: 5
Bronze Performances: 5

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 21.09 (20.98) 51.40 (50.85) 4.66 (rank 19)
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1984-1987): 20.32 46.54 5.33 (rank 31)
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 20.03 51.28 4.90 (rank 11)
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 19.96 50.04 4.80 (rank 15)

"Big Bird" had no gold performances but what he did have was outstanding consistency and a remarkable record across all the weighted criteria. And he maintained his high standards until the end, hitting his peak in the last three years of his career. No matter what the strength of the opponent, or whether he was playing home or away, opening the bowling or coming on first or second change, Garner's record is almost faultless. It is only the lack of truly memorable performances that stops him breaking into the top 20.
 
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_00_deathscar

International Regular
Walsh is very underrated, in the cricketing world in general but also on CW I find. The comparisons with Anderson (regardless of number of wickets, regardless of DoG's rankings etc) are insane.

Having said that, yes, if it's a cloudy day, green pitch and in England, I probably want Anderson bowling. It's just recognising that Anderson with the right conditions is absolutely terrific, but it's also realising that without those conditions, he was often found wanting.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Garner was a fine bowler. Better in ODI cricket perhaps but still a legendary test match quick. Makes it into my top 4 WIndies quicks - Marshall, Ambrose, Garner and Holding, with Croft, Roberts, Walsh and Bishop waiting for an opportunity.
 

Bolo

State Captain
That's a clump of excellent WI bowlers we are seeing. All of them are probably landing below where most readers would rank them more subjectively. Getting dragged down due to having to compete with each other for wickets.
 

Migara

International Coach
@DoG: When comes to performances, areyou adding the number of performances or rating of each performance?
 

Bolo

State Captain
Maybe that makes up for them having unparalleled support.
Within the bounds of this analysis it's better to be a lone gun. PPI ends up too low when you have competition. See the difference between Herath (average 28) and the recent WI players (average low 20s).

I think any form of statistical analysis is going to favour lone guns if it gives a high weight to wpm (whether directly or indirectly and not corresponding exactly as done here through individual innings). Pack bowlers should have lower averages to counterbalance this, but I don't think the affect will be enough to counterbalance the WPM given how important the metric is and the need to give it it's due in all circumstances, not just this one.
 

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