The evolution of LOIs in your lifetime

[harsh.ag]

Tendulkar and Viv were fine part timers fwiw. Sachin was underbowled to the point of ludicrousness.

 

[Starfighter]

Which was Tendulkar best at: his off breaks, his leg breaks or his mediums?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Viv.


Steve Waugh is an example of how much the game has changed. In the 90s he was one off the best batsmen in the world in ODI cricket. But his average and strike rate are 33@76, which would not get you a state gig these days, let alone an international one.

.

3rd best test batsman of the 90s, but not in the top 25 odi batsmen of the decade

 

[mr_mister]

Steve Waugh wasn't that good at ODIs but he had some clutch performances in important WC games

 

[stephen]

3rd best test batsman of the 90s, but not in the top 25 odi batsmen of the decade

He was 15th top run scorer in the decade.

But ok, let's look at some of the other top guys in the 90s...

De Silva - 37@82
Jayasuriya - 28@90
Ahmed 37@80
Azhar & M Waugh 40@77
Kirsten 40@70
Inzi 40@73
Flower 33@72
Sohail 32@65
Ponting 40@71
Anwar 41@83
Ranatunga 39@79

Lara 43@80
Tendulkar 43@87
Bevan 60@77

It's fair to say that Waugh sits between these guys on strike rate and is only a little behind on average.

I've separated the final three since they're remarkably better than anyone else in this decade.

 

[Burgey]

3rd best test batsman of the 90s, but not in the top 25 odi batsmen of the decade

He was the most consistent test batsman of the 90s.

 

[ankitj]

Amazing how low some of those SRs are. Ponting 71, Inzamam 73!

Just puts Viv in perspective whose SR was 90 while playing most games in 80s. And also Zaheer Abbas whose SR was touching 85 while playing his last ODI in 1985.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

I think the catalyst for chasing(belief in winning) was 434v438

andyc's Mick Lewis post has a lot to answer for

 

[Magrat Garlick]

I had a quick look at some stats on chasing vs setting a target (top 8 countries only) post 1979 when 20+ matches were played per year.

1986 was the best year to chase targets. Batting first saw 20 wins while chasing saw 37 wins! 1985 was the second best chasing year with 23 vs 39.

The best years for batting first were 1991, which saw 23 wins by the side batting first and only 14 by the side batting second. Next best was 1999 which saw 60 wins batting first vs 41 batting second.

Since 2000, 13 years have had a better win ratio batting second vs 4 years batting first. Three years in that period were even.

Before 2000, 8 years had a better win ratio batting first while 10 years were better for batting second. 3 years were even.

Undoubtedly batting second has become easier but it seems that chasing has always been slightly easier.

The total over all 2813 matches is 1300 wins batting first and 1379 batting second.

By decade first innings/ second innings (ratio) batting average/rpo:
1970s - 32/40 (.800) 25.21/4.04
1980s - 224/258 (.868) 28.37/4.47
1990s - 364/350 (1.040) 29.53/4.61
2000s - 395/421 (.938) 30.98/5.02
2010s - 285/310 (.919) 33.16/5.44

So while the conventional thinking of the 90s was right (it was better to bat first that decade), in every other decade it was easier to chase a total than set one.

Incidentally the change in bats and rules is clearly visible in the increased average and strike rates since 2000, particularly since 2010.

I'm wondering if this has something to do with more day/night matches being introduced in the 1990s and teams having trouble chasing under lights? Or were they always a feature?

 

[stephen]

Amazing how low some of those SRs are. Ponting 71, Inzamam 73!

Just puts Viv in perspective whose SR was 90 while playing most games in 80s. And also Zaheer Abbas whose SR was touching 85 while playing his last ODI in 1985.

Yeah and these guys were the top players of the era in terms of runs scored and batting averages.

It just goes to show how much of an impact both rule changes and technology play in sports.

 

[stephen]

I'm wondering if this has something to do with more day/night matches being introduced in the 1990s and teams having trouble chasing under lights? Or were they always a feature?

I think that has something to do with it.

 

[Starfighter]

I'm wondering if this has something to do with more day/night matches being introduced in the 1990s and teams having trouble chasing under lights? Or were they always a feature?

Maybe. There were plenty of DN series in Australia in the eighties but not so much elsewhere. Definitely changed in the nineties.

 

[stephen]

Also the DLS refinements have made chasing after rain interruption fairer.

 

[Bolo]

Highest run scorers=/= best bats. Waugh was just not that suited to ODIs-stodgy players aren't. From the 90s RSA (not a particularly strong batting side) had Kirsten, Rhodes, Cronje and Klusenar I can think of offhand who would have been ahead of Waugh statistically. Probably some others as well.

If Viv Richards played today instead of the 80s he'd average 55 and strike at 110, which is a higher average and strike rate than de Villiers and a higher strike rate than Kohli (averaging 3 less).

And those estimates are conservative since I was comparing based on 80s averages. Viv played a fair bit in the 70s as well.

What's today in your calculation? 2018 is probably nearly as different from 2004ish when AB started as 2004 is from Viv's career. Last few years have been crazy for batting.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

He was the most consistent test batsman of the 90s.

Chris Martin was the most consistent test batsman of the 00s

 

[stephen]

Highest run scorers=/= best bats. Waugh was just not that suited to ODIs-stodgy players aren't. From the 90s RSA (not a particularly strong batting side) had Kirsten, Rhodes, Cronje and Klusenar I can think of offhand who would have been ahead of Waugh statistically. Probably some others as well.



What's today in your calculation? 2018 is probably nearly as different from 2004ish when AB started as 2004 is from Viv's career. Last few years have been crazy for batting.

2010s.

 

[stephen]

Also, Waugh had a better stroke rate than Kirsten during the 90s.

Rhodes and Cronje struck at 78 and 77 respectively, which is 3 and 2 runs per hundred balls higher than Waugh, who struck at 75 in the decade.

Waugh being stodgy is a bit of a myth. He struck at the same rate as moist other bats in the decade.

 

[GotSpin]

Good use of the word moist there

 

[TheJediBrah]

Also, Waugh had a better stroke rate than Kirsten during the 90s.

Rhodes and Cronje struck at 78 and 77 respectively, which is 3 and 2 runs per hundred balls higher than Waugh, who struck at 75 in the decade.

Waugh being stodgy is a bit of a myth. He struck at the same rate as moist other bats in the decade.

Didn't really moist my bat tbh, Mark Waugh's stroke play on the other hand . . .

 

[Prince EWS]

Good use of the word moist there

He said "stroke rate" as well. Freud would have a field day with that post.