DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[AndrewB]

He's often described as being a bit of a hypochondriac, besides his injuries (much as Chris Old was 20 years later).

 

[Days of Grace]

Not drinking for a spell after that weekend.

No.27

Jim Laker (England) 798

Quality Points: 736
Career Points: 62

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw54XgnNi3k

Career: 1948-1959
Wickets: 193
Gold Performances: 3
6/55 vs. Australia at Leeds 1956 (16.13)
9/37 vs. Australia at Manchester 1956 (21.36)
10/53 vs. Australia at Manchester 1956 (21.92)
Silver Performances: 6
Bronze Performances: 1

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 21.40 (21.25) 54.68 (62.32) 4.51 (rank 23)
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1965-1973): 17.24 52.40 5.07 (rank 22)
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 28.49 68.70 3.28 (rank 85)
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 19.14 46.67 5.84 (rank 2)

The owner of the best match figures in terms of PPI, Jim Laker is also amazing for achieving his only gold performances in three consecutive innings. Without a doubt, England's best ever spinner. He struggled a little overseas but was brilliant against Australia at home, playing a key role in winning England the Ashes in 1953 and 1956. His record is actually very similar to Ravi Jadeja's, which is somewhat amusing considering the general opinion CW has of both bowlers.

 

[Days of Grace]

In other news, Mohammad Abbas has made the top 100, at no.64.

27 JC Laker 798
28 Shoaib Akhtar 797
29 MA Holding 787
30 RA Jadeja 785
31 AV Bedser 784
32 HJ Tayfield 783
33 IT Botham 778
34 RJ Harris 774
35 GA Lohmann 774
36 Fazal Mahmood 772
37 M Ntini 755
38 MG Johnson 753
39 RGD Willis 749
40 Mohammad Asif 749
41 RR Lindwall 748
42 JA Snow 744
43 PM Pollock 743
44 AME Roberts 740
45 IR Bishop 738
46 CEH Croft 732
47 D Gough 731
48 DL Underwood 729
49 Yasir Shah 729
50 WW Hall 728
51 SCJ Broad 728
52 BS Chandrasekhar 728
53 N Kapil Dev 726
54 CJ McDermott 726
55 AR Caddick 725
56 JR Thomson 724
57 ARC Fraser 722
58 H Trumble 720
59 M Morkel 719
60 Harbhajan Singh 719
61 GP Swann 717
62 NAT Adcock 716
63 LR Gibbs 715
64 Mohammad Abbas 715
65 Saeed Ajmal 715
66 R Benaud 715
67 CTB Turner 708
68 MA Starc 708
69 JH Wardle 701
70 TM Alderman 700
71 JB Statham 700
72 GD McKenzie 700
73 SR Clark 699
74 JN Gillespie 698
75 MW Tate 694
76 FH Tyson 694
77 KR Miller 694
78 B Lee 685
79 MG Hughes 684
80 SCG MacGill 683
81 GF Lawson 682
82 Saqlain Mushtaq 681
83 BS Bedi 681
84 CL Cairns 674
85 TA Boult 672
86 JR Hazlewood 672
87 HH Streak 671
88 MJ Hoggard 670
89 WA Johnston 670
90 Z Khan 668
91 H Verity 667
92 N Wagner 667
93 SE Bond 665
94 WPUJC Vaas 663
95 PM Siddle 659
96 BA Reid 656
97 NM Lyon 655
98 GAR Lock 655
99 EAS Prasanna 655
100 Danish Kaneria 654

I reckon Sids should retire now. He is in danger of bowling himself out of the top 100!

 

[trundler]

Not drinking for a spell after that weekend.

No.27

Jim Laker (England) 798

Quality Points: 736
Career Points: 62

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw54XgnNi3k

Career: 1948-1959
Wickets: 193
Gold Performances: 3
6/55 vs. Australia at Leeds 1956 (16.13)
9/37 vs. Australia at Manchester 1956 (21.36)
10/53 vs. Australia at Manchester 1956 (21.92)
Silver Performances: 6
Bronze Performances: 1

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 21.40 (21.25) 54.68 (62.32) 4.51 (rank 23)
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1965-1973): 17.24 52.40 5.07 (rank 22)
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 28.49 68.70 3.28 (rank 85)
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 19.14 46.67 5.84 (rank 2)

The owner of the best match figures in terms of PPI, Jim Laker is also amazing for achieving his only gold performances in three consecutive innings. Without a doubt, England's best ever spinner. He struggled a little overseas but was brilliant against Australia at home, playing a key role in winning England the Ashes in 1953 and 1956. His record is actually very similar to Ravi Jadeja's, which is somewhat amusing considering how the general opinion CW has of both bowlers.

Wow, that's pretty surprising. Laker too won a lottery with the pitches he bowled on. None would be a better example than Manchester 56'. I suppose the quality of batsmanship in his day ought to have been better and he didn't have DRS either. I realize comparing spinners across eras is pretty futile.

 

[harsh.ag]

In other news, Mohammad Abbas has made the top 100, at no.64.

Pandemonium in the thunderdome!

Glad to know Laker ends up below Grimmett

 

[trundler]

Grimmett held the record for most wickets for years. As did Barnes. Both took fewer than modern bowlers but should get maximum career points for holding the record IMO.

 

[Borges]

Not drinking for a spell after that weekend.

No.27

Jim Laker (England) 798

His record is actually very similar to Ravi Jadeja's, which is somewhat amusing considering how the general opinion CW has of both bowlers.

Very amusing, indeed. Ha ha ha!

 

[ankitj]

My prediction for next 2 (who will also miss out on top 25 club): Davidson and Rabada.

I can't get any prediction right :|

 

[ankitj]

Wow, that's pretty surprising. Laker too won a lottery with the pitches he bowled on. None would be a better example than Manchester 56'. I suppose the quality of batsmanship in his day ought to have been better and he didn't have DRS either. I realize comparing spinners across eras is pretty futile.

Do we genuinely believe batsmanship in that era was better or worse? I mean it's possible to say that Kohli, Pujara and Rahane are not as good players of spin aa Sehwag, Tendulkar and Laxman. But can we confidently say Sobers and Harvey were better than Kohli and Smith?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Wow, that's pretty surprising. Laker too won a lottery with the pitches he bowled on. None would be a better example than Manchester 56'. I suppose the quality of batsmanship in his day ought to have been better and he didn't have DRS either. I realize comparing spinners across eras is pretty futile.

Do we genuinely believe batsmanship in that era was better or worse? I mean it's possible to say that Kohli, Pujara and Rahane are not as good players of spin aa Sehwag, Tendulkar and Laxman. But can we confidently say Sobers and Harvey were better than Kohli and Smith?

Sobers and Kanhai were clearly excellent players of spin... just watching videos makes that clear. However, if you watch video of Laker's 19 wicket match, it's also clear the quality of batting of Australia's lineup against spin is absolutely abysmal. It's frankly cringeworthy how bad some of the shots are. I'm not joking when I say that Bangladesh of today are better plays of spin than that Australia lineup.

 

[Bolo]

Confidently, no. It stands to reason that standards should have gone up since the start of the professional era, and batting could be as strong as then.

All we can say with confidence is that we've seen a decline in recent batting standards.

 

[andmark]

Grimmett held the record for most wickets for years. As did Barnes. Both took fewer than modern bowlers but should get maximum career points for holding the record IMO.

That would have the issue of earlier bowlers having an advantage due to the less players to get past.

 

[trundler]

Both of them had far, far greater reputations as players of spin though. In fact I've seen each of those 2 touted as the greatest players of spin ever. They pass the eye test too - based on the footage that I've seen. Plus, I think generally batting techniques have certainly gotten worse against the moving ball. Blame LOIs or pitches if you will but most batsmen are utterly inept in spin friendly conditions.

 

[Bolo]

Very amusing, indeed. Ha ha ha!

The main issue I have with Jadejas record is how much of a HTB he is. Laker was too, but he's not averaging late 30s away, so I don't regard their records as particularly similar.

 

[trundler]

Sobers and Kanhai were clearly excellent players of spin... just watching videos makes that clear. However, if you watch video of Laker's 19 wicket match, it's also clear the quality of batting of Australia's lineup against spin is absolutely abysmal. It's frankly cringeworthy how bad some of the shots are. I'm not joking when I say that Bangladesh of today are better plays of spin than that Australia lineup.

Yeah that 19 fer saw some truly horrid batting.

Interestingly, Laker's worst average is against WI - the best players of spin of his day (Sobers, the 3 Ws among them).

Is there any spinner in history besides O'Reilly who wasn't utterly innocuous against the best bats of his day?

 

[Migara]

Is there any spinner in history besides O'Reilly who wasn't utterly innocuous against the best bats of his day?

If the conditions were good most good spinners bossed best of batting line ups. Saqlain was very good against India in India. Murali destroyed India and Australia on Sri Lankan pitches.

Was English lineup that O'Riely bowled was as good as Indian lineup against spin in 90s? debatable. That Indian lineup probably was the best in test history.

 

[trundler]

Probably not. That Indian lineup was something else. Maybe West Indies in the 50 and 60s come close, not sure. Bradman's invincibles maybe. Hassett and Harvey were great players of spin .

 

[Migara]

Probably not. That Indian lineup was something else. Maybe West Indies in the 50 and 60s come close, not sure. Bradman's invincibles maybe. Hassett and Harvey were great players of spin .

There had been no other batting lineup, that made two ATG spinners to look foolish on tracks turning square. Besides that line up others either faced only one ATGish spinner, or they played on flat tracks, or they never destroyed them.

 

[Tec15]

Laker type off spinners of the 50's (Tayfield is another example) absolutely benefited from the poor pitches, poor batsmanship and the defensive batting mentality of that era (Just look at their strike rate and economy rates). From the 60's onward with increasing professionalization, that type of bowling was increasingly found out and by the 80's they were in danger of extinction. Slow Left armers still had a role to play yes, given the prevalence of right handed batsmen, but right arm off spinners were increasingly seen as relics who most batsmen had mastered by then and who could never offer more than being support acts to the fast bowlers at best.

It's only from the 90's onward that off spinners starting with Saqlain Mushtaq have had to develop an extra dimension with the "doosra" and far greater accuracy and consistency to be competitive on the international stage. Even so, I don't think it's a coincidence that Murali apart (And we know what a special case he is), that none of them have been able to maintain averages of the sort that Laker and co managed in the 50's. Modern batsmen know how to play them for the most part, they are far less defensive and don't let offies just bowl at them, are far more able and willing to attack and throw them off their lines etc. No more freebies either, with deliberate wet and uncovered pitches and the like (Unless you are playing for India at Nagpur of course ), so I think that bowlers like Laker (Unlike the top leg spinners like Grimmet and O'Reilly) could only have been successful in the era they played in and would absolutely be monstered in the 80's let alone now.

 

[ankitj]

Even so, I don't think it's a coincidence that Murali apart (And we know what a special case he is), that none of them have been able to maintain averages of the sort that Laker and co managed in the 50's.

You are forgetting Ashwin.