DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[Days of Grace]

Interesting a chunk of his best performances came after his supposed peak

His peak was from 2002-2007

 

[h_hurricane]

Akhtar knocking over Dravid and Tendulkar in successive deliveries was such a statement of chilling pace.What a bowler !

 

[stephen]

Akhtar is underrated because Imran, Wasim and Waqar were better. Akhtar also was out to injury quite regularly so even if he was on tour he usually didn't play every game.

 

[trundler]

So surely we have reached the stage where only bowlers who couldn't have missed out are left. Will be most interesting from here on. This entire thread has been excellent food for thought.

Re Jadeja at 30: DoG is absolutely right in saying no one would bat an eye if some 1950s bowler with a poor away record had been in his place. Bedser's away record isn't that flash. Even Trueman took like 75% of his wickets in England.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Rabada is going to make the list and he'll deserve it.

 

[harsh.ag]

Seems incredible to have Shoaib ranked ahead of Holding. But stats are stats and they would have made a thundering bowling pair.

 

[trundler]

Seems incredible to have Shoaib ranked ahead of Holding. But stats are stats and they would have made a thundering bowling pair.

For one spell every 4 series.

 

[ankitj]

Seems incredible to have Shoaib ranked ahead of Holding. But stats are stats and they would have made a thundering bowling pair.

It's also perhaps time to give stats their due because stats is another name for facts. No one is obviously going to agree with every ranking in this exercise. But if you hold an opinion on relative ranking on 2 bowlers that cannot be justified by some reasonable formula on stats (by weighting whatever you value higher) may be your opinion is bunkum. At least that's what I will tell anyone expressing an opinion at work without using data.

 

[Bolo]

Akhtar above Holding is very unexpected, based on either raw stats or general perception. Lots more wickets, lower average, better away. I'm not arguing against the ranking of the two (you need a more compelling argument than this), but harsh isn't either .

Akhtar vs Shah on away tests leaves a bit of a problem that can't be resolved. Akhtar deserves to have his UAE tests marked as away- they were no more home conditions to him than to the opposition. For Shah though, his entire career came in the era of UAE tests.

 

[ankitj]

My prediction for next 2 (who will also miss out on top 25 club): Davidson and Rabada.

 

[harsh.ag]

Akhtar above Holding is very unexpected, based on either raw stats or general perception. Lots more wickets, lower average, better away. I'm not arguing against the ranking of the two (you need a more compelling argument than this), but harsh isn't either.

Yeah, that's what makes it surprising. Raw stats weren't favouring Shoaib. And of course Holding was more fit and consistent. Adjusted stats ftw I guess.

 

[stephen]

The funny thing is that Davidson is usually rated below Lindwall. He's way ahead statistically.

And anyone picking McGrath/Lillee/ Lindwall for an Aus XI over McGrath/Lillee/Davidson also has to justify why they've picked a worse bowler but also a bowler who doesn't even give as much variety.

Davo is dramatically underrated.

 

[stephen]

I think with this exercise, being one place ahead doesn't mean much - could have been an extra tail end wicket turning a silver performance into a gold one.

 

[Starfighter]

Since I personally rate Lindwall over Lillee I think we can just leave the latter out of the XI all together. Debatable whether it's a better team, but sure got better human beings.

 

[h_hurricane]

The funny thing is that Davidson is usually rated below Lindwall. He's way ahead statistically.

And anyone picking McGrath/Lillee/ Lindwall for an Aus XI over McGrath/Lillee/Davidson also has to justify why they've picked a worse bowler but also a bowler who doesn't even give as much variety.

Davo is dramatically underrated.

Davo is also a better batsman and hence a better fit in a line up with Warne, Lillee and Mcgrath to follow.

 

[Bolo]

Their adjusted stats are very similar. I would have thought Holdings 40% extra wickets would have carried him across the line here, but his PPI is a lot lower, and it's not easy to estimate where bowlers will end up on this measure.

The funny thing is that Davidson is usually rated below Lindwall. He's way ahead statistically.

And anyone picking McGrath/Lillee/ Lindwall for an Aus XI over McGrath/Lillee/Davidson also has to justify why they've picked a worse bowler but also a bowler who doesn't even give as much variety.

Davo is dramatically underrated.

Slower bowlers not named Mcgrath almost always get a raw deal in he court of public opinion.

 

[ankitj]

I pick either Davidson or O'Reilly as 4th bowler in AUS all time XI. Lindwall's reputation is bigger than his actual performances one would have to say. Perhaps like Roberts in that regard.

 

[morgieb]

Worth noting that Lindwall's and Davidson's average were pretty much similar at the same age Davidson stopped playing Tests.....Lindwall went on for too long and it kinda killed his record somewhat.

 

[Starfighter]

I brought this up somewhere else. Lindwall bowled a relatively low number of overs per match in his peak period, a lot to do with Bradman's captaincy, and only had more work after he's begun to decline and cricket had become increasingly defensive. Hence a relatively poor strike rate and a very low WpM corresponding to a very low PpM. And as DoG said, his '59-60 comeback really dented his figures.

 

[Starfighter]

I pick either Davidson or O'Reilly as 4th bowler in AUS all time XI. Lindwall's reputation is bigger than his actual performances one would have to say. Perhaps like Roberts in that regard.

I think part of Robert's reputation stems from the fact he was way better away from home, so the wider cricket world got to see more of his best than back in WI.

Worth noting that Lindwall's and Davidson's average were pretty much similar at the same age Davidson stopped playing Tests.....Lindwall went on for too long and it kinda killed his record somewhat.

I think Davidson is generally thought to have finished prematurely, I think he had some injuries now and again but like quite a few Australian players the poorly paying amateur structure forced his hand. That said he was 33 1/2 though, Lindwall finished at 38, and very few fast bowlers maintain form till then. So maybe it does account for the difference. Marshall finished at 33 as well, and I often get vibes that people think he finished early.