DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[harsh.ag]

I think there's more to it than just 'bowler friendly pitches in India':

Maybe someone else can check, but this period of Indian dominance at home (as a quick guess) even supersedes the dominance of West Indies 70s/80s at home and Australia 90s/00s at home. India are utterly dominant at home.

A part of that is Ashwin/Jadeja. Another part is that the Indian fast bowlers are pretty bloody good these days which has never been the case, certainly not as a unit (Srinath and Zaheer had spells).

And finally, likewise, the Indian batting is more dominant (at home) than even the Sehwag/Dravid/Sachin/Ganguly/Dhoni lineup.

All the factors can't be isolated - they all play into each other which is why India is so dominant at home, and why you see Ashwin and Jadeja so high up the list.

Wrong imo.

 

[ankitj]

Kumble, Andersen and Walsh are going to finish very high. One of them might even crack top 10.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah, the Indian lineup between 2008-2011 was ridiculously dominant. Everyone was in peak form except dravid who still scored plenty. From the home series vs SA in 2008 to the world cup, the averages of the top 6 at home were:

Sehwag: 66
Gambhir : 61
Dravid : 51
Sachin: 62
VVS: 59
Dhoni: 47

Miles ahead of what we've had in the last two years or so. Kohli has been amazing and others like Pujara and Dhawan have dominated at home but Rahane has been rubbish, Vijay has declined badly and saha though underrated definitely isn't capable of what Dhoni could do in home conditions.

The point about the pacers is valid though. Shami and Umesh managed to out bowl the English and aussie pacers in those series. Helps Ashwin and Jadeja's stats a lot because the pacers have always looked threatening and can be counted on to provide a few breakthroughs and atleast keep the pressure on.

 

[stephen]

Seven pages since no.30!

No.29

Michael Holding (West Indies) 787

Quality Points: 714
Career Points: 73

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IQ-UGwZdKM&t=7s

Career: 1975-1987
Wickets: 249
Gold Performances: 3
8/92 vs. England at The Oval 1976 (18.16)
6/57 vs. England at The Oval 1976 (16.03)
6/21 vs. Australia at Brisbane 1984 (17.16)
Silver Performances: 4
Bronze Performances: 9

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 23.44 (23.69) 50.91 (50.92) 4.54 (rank 32)
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1976-1982): 19.77 46.43 5.52 (rank 28)
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 23.45 51.47 4.85 (rank 23)
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 23.91 53.79 4.27 (rank 47)

The rolls royce of fast bowlers, I wish Whispering Death could have ranked higher than no.29 but his relative lack of wickets count against him. He lost some of his peak years to world series cricket, where he took 35 wickets in 9 matches at 23.09. Other than that, he has a very consistent record across all the set criteria.

Picked it like a dirty noise.

 

[stephen]

Honestly there is no better sight in cricket than Holding delivering a cricket ball. That action is smoother than a gold medalist synchronised swimming routine. His run-up is so unassuming and his action so graceful you can scarcely believe the ball was even bowled but he was so quick the ball sprang at the batsman like a cobra attacking its prey.

There is something primal, beautiful, ***ual even in the way Holding delivers the ball. I want to watch him bowl all day.

 

[h_hurricane]

Garner ahead of Holding. Interesting.

Not that much surprising. Garner is highly under rated imo. More wickets in less matches, More wickets per match, clearly better average. I hope he breaks top 10. There is an extremely slim possibility.

 

[h_hurricane]

On a side note, I am really liking this exercise. Hats off to DoG for such a great effort. Garner and Davidson are two under rated ATGs. To average around 20 across a whole career takes some doing. Hope to see them as late as possible here

 

[trundler]

Not that much surprising. Garner is highly under rated imo. More wickets in less matches, More wickets per match, clearly better average. I hope he breaks top 10. There is an extremely slim possibility.

It just goes against common perception. I totally see why. In fact Garner might just have been the hardest to score off among the West Indian quartet because of that awkward bounce.

 

[h_hurricane]

It just goes against common perception. I totally see why. In fact Garner might just have been the hardest to score off among the West Indian quartet because of that awkward bounce.

Yes. He was the hardest to score off. Had that awkward bounce and an impossible to judge yorker. From that height, he could either bowl a short ball from good length or a fast, dead straight yorker. Holding was an artist and was more brutal and deadly. Garner was more methodical and was arguably better in getting the job done. It must have been some privilege to watch them bowl for over a decade.

 

[Bolo]

I thought holding took more career wickets, more WPM, and struck faster than Garner. Turns out these are all (just) wrong. Garner is definitely underrated, and I think the idea that he was difficult to score off might contribute to this, because people overlook the fact that he was a magnificent strike bowler as well.

 

[h_hurricane]

I also think Holding did not do full justice to his talent. He had raw pace and great direction, but the issue was his focus some times was on batsman's head and not stumps.It gave great aesthetic pleasure to the audience and absolute horror time to the batsmen.He could have been Marshall level with the ball if he wanted to. But did not focus enough on the primary task of getting wickets. He is still a bonafide ATG, but could have been even higher with his talent.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Espn legends

37. Garner
38. Roberts
40. Holding

 

[Burgey]

Yes. He was the hardest to score off. Had that awkward bounce and an impossible to judge yorker. From that height, he could either bowl a short ball from good length or a fast, dead straight yorker. Holding was an artist and was more brutal and deadly. Garner was more methodical and was arguably better in getting the job done. It must have been some privilege to watch them bowl for over a decade.

It was indeed.

Provided you weren’t 22 yards away from them when they were doing it.

 

[TheJediBrah]

On a side note, I am really liking this exercise.

Me too. Even if you disagree with the ratings everyone is where they are for a good reason. Very interesting.

 

[Burgey]

Yep it’s absolute quality. Monumental effort gone into this from DoG.

 

[Days of Grace]

Thanks again for your kind thoughts!

Ain't gonna change AB's rating though.

No.28

Shoaib Akhtar (Pakistan) 797

Quality Points: 737
Career Points: 60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uypEMxEABnU

Career: 1997-2007
Wickets: 178
Gold Performances: 4
6/11 vs. New Zealand at Lahore 2002 (20.12)
5/21 vs. Australia at Colombo (PSS) 2002 (15.89)
6/30 vs. New Zealand at Wellington 2003 (18.24)
5/71 vs. England at Lahore 2005 (15.04)
Silver Performances: 4
Bronze Performances: 6

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 23.60 (25.70) 46.73 (45.75) 4.75 (rank 26)
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (2002-2007): 19.54 39.98 6.02 (rank 19)
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 23.51 46.17 4.72 (rank 21)
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 23.99 46.10 4.89 (rank 28)

The Rawalpindi Express makes his appearance. A brilliant, devastating bowler when on song. And he caught fire against New Zealand at Lahore and Wellington, in the latter occurrence bowling the Black Caps out for 103 after they were 95/3! He has very similar averages to Michael Holding, but at a better strike-rate and PPI.

 

[Burgey]

Imagine if he had Siddle’s heart.

Or any heart for that matter.

A mate of mine had the displeasure of opening the batting for Fairfield against he and Lee when they were both playing for Mosman. He said it wasn’t a lot of fun.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Wafg. One of my favourite bowlers ever. I've always thought he was a bit under-appreciated. Most exciting bowler I've ever watched live.

 

[smash84]

there is no doubt, there weren't too many dull moments when Akhtar was playing. Nice to see him breaking the top 30.

He was terribly unfit though, and played so few tests due to that

 

[mr_mister]

Interesting a chunk of his best performances came after his supposed peak