Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[mr_mister]

Smith's ban should have been a lot lighter. He's not their CO in the army he's just a teammate. Captaincy isn't as important as we act like it is

 

[Starfighter]

Captaincy isn't as important as we act like it is

Oh boy do I agree with this.

 

[Spikey]

oh i have to buy haigh's book

 

[the big bambino]

If only this ...

First up; no bans. Or if you felt you have to then organise a quick Chappell - Hadlee and ban them for that.
Remove Smith from captaincy. The ball tampering confirmed the impression that he can't resist the temptation to cheat that was created when he tried to get a sneaky peak before deciding on a review. Also shows he doesn't have the maturity or character to counter someone as strong willed as Warner.
Warner to play because we need him but never to be in any leadership position again. Hurt him financially somehow. Downgrade his contract or something. Keep duct tape instead of sandpaper and hold the prick down and seal his gob if he jabbers on field again.
Bancroft. Stupid rookie. Warn and fine him.

 

[Gnske]

Smith's ban should have been a lot lighter. He's not their CO in the army he's just a teammate. Captaincy isn't as important as we act like it is

Oh boy do I agree with this.

AWTA.

I think the game as a whole, loving it is fine and dandy, but the level of importance given to sport, particularly this one in this country was under a curious spotlight in itself in this fiasco I feel.

 

[theegyptian]

Smith's ban should have been a lot lighter. He's not their CO in the army he's just a teammate. Captaincy isn't as important as we act like it is

He's clearly not just a teammate imo. He makes all the decisions on the field and a lot off the field with the coach. The Umpires go to him if they got a problem with any of his teammates. He is the figurehead of the side - like it or not. He shouldn't have taken the captaincy if he just wanted to be a teammate.

Somones got to be responsible for a teams behaviour on the pitch- to set an example, and make sure individuals don't get out of line.

I barely followed this case but did Smith know Bancroft was going to tamper with the ball? If so, then yes he imo deserved the most severe of the punishments. He was ultimately in charge. The buck stops with him.

The length of the bans for all the players involved look very harsh given precedent - but imo Smith definitely deserves as long if not longer than Warner and Bancroft.

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah, agree to disagree.

 

[cnerd123]

Smith's ban should have been a lot lighter. He's not their CO in the army he's just a teammate. Captaincy isn't as important as we act like it is

Oh boy do I agree with this.

Why do you think this? Do you mean purely in terms of on-field results, or do you think captaincy isn't significant in shaping the culture of a team, and in terms of sending a message to the wider cricket community of that nation?

 

[Starfighter]

Why do you think this? Do you mean purely in terms of on-field results, or do you think captaincy isn't significant in shaping the culture of a team, and in terms of sending a message to the wider cricket community of that nation?

Both, though it depends on the captain. I'll happily blame Ian Chappell for embedding **** culture in the Australian team but I think the individuals of the team are a heck of a lot more important in the culture and so on than the captain, especially a weak one like Smith. It's overstated.

 

[Dan]

oh i have to buy haigh's book

Reckon it'll comfortably be his weakest tbh

 

[Gnske]

Why do you think this? Do you mean purely in terms of on-field results, or do you think captaincy isn't significant in shaping the culture of a team, and in terms of sending a message to the wider cricket community of that nation?

I think history and context are hard things to beat as one guy. Especially when you inherit a culture which you are told and 'know' in your heart works, and have been told as such your whole life. And then you have a whole nation that think the culture of your sport is top notch.

 

[stephen]

When the ball tampering news broke I couldn't believe it and was immediately angry with the players. That lasted a good 3 days or so.

By the time the bans were handed down I felt they were excessive. Now I think 12 months is utterly absurd for Smith. Turning a blind eye is not the same as masterminding or committing the action and even if it is the offense committed is relatively small in the grand scheme of things. Of all the ways you can cheat, ball tampering is the most ineffective and requires the most skill to achieve. You're better off spiking a drink or strategically placing some marbles for a player to slip on or doing any number of underhanded things on the field. Ball tampering is pretty low impact all things considered.

This is still how I feel.

I felt six months was a more than adequate length of time for the bans. Even then, missing all of those ODIs plus three tests is a LOT of cricket to miss.

And they should never have been banned from first class cricket. It's absurd Steven Smith and David Warner are playing for their clubs instead of NSW.

 

[the big bambino]

Why do you think this? Do you mean purely in terms of on-field results, or do you think captaincy isn't significant in shaping the culture of a team, and in terms of sending a message to the wider cricket community of that nation?

Nobody seemed interested in "sending a message to the wider cricket community" when Faf and Vernon tampered. Complete overreaction.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah, I don't think captaincy matters in pure cricketing terms but when it comes to things like doing something against the rules, of course it matters.

That said, I don't think any of them deserved a long ban. They admitted to tampering, got punished appropriately according to the ICC rulebook and that should've been the end of it. CA felt the need to appease the masses of Australian fans who wanted to pat themselves on the back for not tolerating cheating instead of doing the sensible thing and accepting the stipulated punishment as sufficient. It was just another opportunity for them to appear high and mighty and above cheating and portray themselves as the vanguards of the #rightway to play cricket. Watching complete ****s like Michael Clarke feigning horror on television that someone would break rules in a ****ing sport was the height of nonsense hypocrisy. Made me puke.

Your players broke a rule which almost every other team also breaks. It's not a big ****ing deal. Pretending you're above it is what caused the over-reaction.

 

[mr_mister]

When you hear the phrase 'second most important position in Australia after the prime minister' thrown around, even facetiously, well you know the importance of a sport captain is overstated.

Compared to other sports I think cricket captaincy is an important job but compared to real positions in businesses/politics/society it's nothing


Steve Waugh is probably what made me realise we overvalue it

 

[OverratedSanity]

Smith's ban should have been a lot lighter. He's not their CO in the army he's just a teammate. Captaincy isn't as important as we act like it is

When you hear the phrase 'second most important position in Australia after the prime minister' thrown around, even facetiously, well you know the importance of a sport captain is overstated.

Compared to other sports I think cricket captaincy is an important job but compared to real positions in businesses/politics/society it's nothing


Steve Waugh is probably what made me realise we overvalue it

I don't know what this argument is. Obviously it's not "important" in the context you're presenting. But you were basically implying the captain should have no accountability for his teammates' actions. That's crazy imo.

Smith deserved just as long a ban as Bancroft and Warner. The thing is, none of them should have been banned for more than a handful of games.

 

[mr_mister]

I think he deserved a way lighter ban. End of

 

[Flem274*]

Your players broke a rule which almost every other team also breaks. It's not a big ****ing deal. Pretending you're above it is what caused the over-reaction.

this is the core of it, and why it's so funny

the long bans are just a desperate attempt by CA to retake the moral high ground

 

[OverratedSanity]

I think he deserved a way lighter ban. End of

Why does Warner not deserve a lighter ban then? He's neither the captain nor was he the guy caught doing the deed.

 

[mr_mister]

Because it was his idea