*Official* Pakistan vs Australia in the UAE 2018

[stephen]

Don't forget how badly Lyon's average and form were affected by Wade's keeping. There were a lot of dropped catches during this period and Lyon stopped bowling for wickets and instead bowled to keep the run rate down.

His more recent efforts have been more reflective of his true abilities. His improvement in Asia has been incredible though.

 

[Burgey]

I don’t especially like this argument tbh. There’s slivers of truth to it, but it smacks of the same desperation that Pakistan fans use when they say wasim and waqar would have taken 47,000 wickets each of their team had better slip fielders.

No doubt Wade was terribad but I think Lyon has just improved a shitload over the past 4-5 years. He’s basically been the one constant in the revolving door of our attack since the selectors ditched their old tactic of dropping him for some random at the start of every series.

 

[Burgey]

Also, is this starting on Sunday for religious reasons? Am happy with the timezone from a watching POV but speaking selfishly it ideally would be a Friday start.

 

[Gnske]

Don't forget how badly Lyon's average and form were affected by Wade's keeping. There were a lot of dropped catches during this period and Lyon stopped bowling for wickets and instead bowled to keep the run rate down.

That's an interesting take on it. What tells you that?

As it was, his bowling wasn't even that great at keeping the run rate down anyway. I was about to make an argument about how he would just jam them in short trying to get bounce, but I realized I was remembering Mark Craig instead. I can't even remember Nathan Lyon's bowling 18 months ago.

 

[stephen]

That's an interesting take on it. What tells you that?

As it was, his bowling wasn't even that great at keeping the run rate down anyway. I was about to make an argument about how he would just jam them in short trying to get bounce, but I realized I was remembering Mark Craig instead. I can't even remember Nathan Lyon's bowling 18 months ago.

Getting all those dropped catches really seemed to shatter Lyon's confidence and he lost a lot of his flight. Is it any wonder that his improvement coincided with better keepers coming on board?

I think it's different from the Pakistani fast bowlers since their MO was to attack the stumps for bowled and lbw because that was the best way to get wickets on the pitches they played on. Spinners get the majority of their wickets through catches, particularly ones like Lyon that give it a huge rip and rely more on flight and drift than mystery balls.

Jadeja and Ashwin use the surface more than Lyon does, while Lyon uses the air more. He's changed his style a bit in Asia to be more like Ashwin, but it's fair to say that his average in Asia would have been a lot lower (high 20s/low 30s) if Wade wasn't our keeper on previous tours.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't buy that Wade's keeping had that big an effect. Definitely would have cost him a few isolated wickets here and there, but it's not like every other keeper is perfect anyway.

 

[Spark]

It was more than a few isolated wickets. It was like two or three clear missed chances an innings at one point.

 

[Hicheal Michael]

Don't forget how badly Lyon's average and form were affected by Wade's keeping. There were a lot of dropped catches during this period and Lyon stopped bowling for wickets and instead bowled to keep the run rate down.

His more recent efforts have been more reflective of his true abilities. His improvement in Asia has been incredible though.

What period are you referring to?

Lyon averages 29 with Wade in the team.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It was more than a few isolated wickets. It was like two or three clear missed chances an innings at one point.

I feel like that may be an exaggeration. Even if true I'm sure other keepers would have missed plenty of chances of him as well. Nevill missed plenty when he took over. What I don't buy is that Lyon completely changed his bowling style to one much less effective purely because Wade missed a few chances off him.

 

[Daemon]

It was more than a few isolated wickets. It was like two or three clear missed chances an innings at one point.

If by one point you mean like two matches then sure. There's no way Wade was missing 2-3 clear chances every innings for any reasonable stretch.

 

[Bijed]

What period are you referring to?

Lyon averages 29 with Wade in the team.

Lyon's stats during Wade's first stint in the test team: 11 matches, 45 wickets @ 34.20

Lyon's stats during Wade's second stint: 10 matches 56 wickets @ 25.03

I'm fairly sure stephen was talking specifcally about Wade's first go in tests. Tbf to Wade I think his keeping was quite a bit better second time around, which with the stats above backs up stephen's point, but I'm with Burgey in saying that the majority of the reason for Lyon's more recent results being better are because he's improved a lot, especially in certain conditions.

 

[Top_Cat]

Wade was a **** ‘keeper but ya can’t pin Lyon’s form on him. Lyon was regularly going at 4+/over for SA in the Shield too.

Also 45 sticks in 11 Test is a pretty reasonable return. He just wasn’t as good as he is now.

 

[stephen]

He definitely has improved as a bowler, of that there's no doubt. I just wonder how much better his early career might have looked if he wasn't randomly dropped every other series and if Wade hadn't dropped so many chances early on. Wade dropping chances had a huge impact on Lyon's confidence and probably on all the random droppings.

 

[brockley]

https://www.supersport.com/cricket/...ed_Australias_T20_captain_for_Pakistan_series
T20 team

 

[Hicheal Michael]

I honestly can't remember many, if any, dropped catches by Wade off Lyon.

I remember Adelaide 2012 and the missed stumping off Clarke's bowling and the drop off Hilfenhaus, but not much else.

Lyon just wasn't that experienced in his earlier years.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Lyon's start to his FC career with the Redbacks wasn't very auspicious, not many thought he would develop into a quality offspinner back then. Tbf that whole side was pretty dire though

 

[morgieb]

I was wanting him picked for that Sri Lankan tour based on how he bowled in his first BBL


*NB: Being mates with his cousin does that.....

 

[NUFAN]

Siddle is in the XI. Amazing.

 

[Burgey]

So one front line quick, a medium paced vegan with the new ball at the other end, two spinners and some part time gash from MMarsh.

Let’s continue that winning feeling from 1877.

 

[Spark]

Surely the weakest batting line-up I've seen put out by an Australian side in my time