*Official* India Tour of England 2018

[Hicheal Michael]

the sky sport podcast after yesterdays play was quite funny. on the topic of cook;

Cork: charles, he is a class player

Charles: no, he was a class player

Cork: no, no, he is a class player

Charles: if you take his 2 double 100's out, he is averaging 17. any other batsmen, they would be gone

Cork: trust me, he is a class player. i am saying it from me.


not sure how much of this is legit, whether they just take contrasting views for the sake of argument.

bob makes a good point though, only cook and root average 40+ and are both out of nick/done it seems.

circa 2010 englands top 7 (strauss, cook, trott, pietersen, bell, collingwood, and prior) all averaged 40+.

 

[Moonsorrow999]

Yeah it was, but back then England actually had players who should play in those roles.

Now, England have about 7 people who should be batting 6 or 7. None of those are really good enough to bat higher. Bairstow to 4 when we have an awful top order with the shots he plays outside off stump all the time? Utter madness and a tad of desperation. But you can’t fill 1-5 with the likes of Stokes, Buttler, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Pope. Probably more? I doubt Clarke would bat at 4 on test debut. But at the moment the England selectors are just enjoying their new sunglasses and hospitality instead of actually looking to see who they can replace the utter mongs like Jennings and Cook and any of those 6 or 7s that have to bat higher.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

People are conveniently ignoring that not only was Bairstow sent to number 4 but he is playing with a broken finger as well. Who decided that was a good idea to let him play?

 

[Top_Cat]

He was passed fit, though. If he couldn't hold the bat or whatever, I find it pretty far-fetched he'd have been picked.

 

[Top_Cat]

One thing I wonder whether people are forgetting is that for all England's frailties with the bat, they're facing a pretty decent Indian pace attack. Even Shami is h00ning them through at the moment.

 

[Stapel]

One thing I wonder whether people are forgetting is that for all England's frailties with the bat, they're facing a pretty decent Indian pace attack. Even Shami is h00ning them through at the moment.

It's something I've been looking forward to! And, perhaps overexcited, I've been expecting it as well. For reasons not completely clear to myself, I've always been somewhat of an Ishant fanboy.. He had to come good in England!

 

[Starfighter]

He was passed fit, though. If he couldn't hold the bat or whatever, I find it pretty far-fetched he'd have been picked.

I'm sure him being passed fit had a large element of 'I'm right' attached to it. It doesn't mean it's the right decision.

 

[Stapel]

Charles: if you take his 2 double 100's out, he is averaging 17. any other batsmen, they would be gone.

The "íf you take out his best innings"-arguement is just rotten.

Cook is class. Simple as that. And in terrible form. Simple as that. As long as England can't find a half decent opening partner for Cook, it seems rather pointless to me to even think of dropping him. Age is not a factor. He's a year and a bit younger than Chris Rogers was at his debut, to give an example.

One thing that is perhaps underestimated: I think the return of form becomes easier if the pressure is off. This is not true for all (as an example: KP would thrive under pressure), but it is for most, I guess. Not having a decent partner and not having a middle order to rely on, is imho a tremendous pressure boost.

 

[MW1304]

It was another wretched performance from the England top order, with this dismissal of Keaton Jennings rather summing up the problems at the start of the innings for Joe Root's team, who have made 100 or fewer at the loss of their fourth wicket in 32 of their past 63 innings.

Some stat from the BBC.

 

[theegyptian]

Bairstow is definitely one of those guys who is desperate to play and would play through an injury. Most sportsmen playing are managing one injury or another.

And Root and Bayliss are definitely in the leave it down to the player camp.

I can't think the injury is too bad given Bairstow wanted to carry on keeping wicket in this game, and was practicing in the day before the game. If he fails twice I don't think he can use the excuse of a broken finger.

 

[Top_Cat]

I'm sure him being passed fit had a large element of 'I'm right' attached to it. It doesn't mean it's the right decision.

Very unlikely in a pro setup, personally. What I'm getting at is any attempt to use it as an excuse should be smacked down. If he was passed fit, his failures are his own because he's fit. If he managed to squeak by the selectors with a broken finger that would affect his performance, it's dumb and the team should also own the failure.

 

[Hicheal Michael]

The "íf you take out his best innings"-arguement is just rotten.

Cook is class. Simple as that. And in terrible form. Simple as that. As long as England can't find a half decent opening partner for Cook, it seems rather pointless to me to even think of dropping him. Age is not a factor. He's a year and a bit younger than Chris Rogers was at his debut, to give an example.

One thing that is perhaps underestimated: I think the return of form becomes easier if the pressure is off. This is not true for all (as an example: KP would thrive under pressure), but it is for most, I guess. Not having a decent partner and not having a middle order to rely on, is imho a tremendous pressure boost.

I don't dispute the first point - I have always felt the 'if you remove x then y' argument is cheap.

Cook did score 180 only a few weeks ago, iirc he also scored a healthy amount of runs for Essex after the Nz tour. Many top players do score heavily after either retiring, or realising they probably wont play test cricket again - Ramprakash, Ponting, Sangakkara, Bell, Trott.

No doubt Cook envisioned playing well into his 30's like Gooch did, he doesn't quite have the technique though now that his reactions appear to have slowed.

 

[Starfighter]

The "íf you take out his best innings"-arguement is just rotten.

Cook is class. Simple as that. And in terrible form. Simple as that. As long as England can't find a half decent opening partner for Cook, it seems rather pointless to me to even think of dropping him. Age is not a factor. He's a year and a bit younger than Chris Rogers was at his debut, to give an example.

One thing that is perhaps underestimated: I think the return of form becomes easier if the pressure is off. This is not true for all (as an example: KP would thrive under pressure), but it is for most, I guess. Not having a decent partner and not having a middle order to rely on, is imho a tremendous pressure boost.

I honestly don't see how your pressure argument applies more to him than his partner. I think it's the other way round, the guy at the other end sees Cook with 12k runs struggling, that can't be too confidence inspiring, and then has it even worse knowing that Cook seems to be untouchable. The way he's batting now is not loss of form, it's the continuation of a trend that has been going for 5-odd years, the 2010 Ashes mean jack-all as to whether he will score runs right now.

 

[Borges]

Make. Them. Play.

I can only repeat the advice that I had given yesterday to the Indian bowlers; which they heeded, and were richly rewarded, I may point out.

The bowlers have the first hour or so to do something meaningful. Make the new ball count, guys; no ATVGing, please.

Let this be your mantra: 'nonATVG good, ATVG bad'.
Repeat this three times before the start of every over, meditating on McGrath and Ambrose - the nonATVGiest of all nonATVGs.

 

[Stapel]

I honestly don't see how your pressure argument applies more to him than his partner. I think it's the other way round, the guy at the other end sees Cook with 12k runs struggling, that can't be too confidence inspiring, and then has it even worse knowing that Cook seems to be untouchable. The way he's batting now is not loss of form, it's the continuation of a trend that has been going for 5-odd years, the 2010 Ashes mean jack-all as to whether he will score runs right now.

Fair enough. Both things can be true, I guess.

 

[StephenZA]

Make. Them. Play.

I can only repeat the advice that I had given yesterday to the Indian bowlers; which they heeded, and were richly rewarded, I may point out.

I am so glad to see forum members have such good and close communication with the international teams.

 

[Top_Cat]

It's easy to say make them play and the comms have been at the English bowlers about it too but the team plan all series has been to give them less bat on ball than they usually like and keep them on strike for the knockout ball. It's worked too, the Indian bats are generally itching to get off strike but the English bats have been worse so....

 

[cnerd123]

I have a scary feeling that Broad is going to have one of those spells

 

[Top_Cat]

Been threatening to all series.

 

[harsh.ag]

So looking forward to this ChePu innings