CW decides the greatest test spinner ever. 43 names: Countdown/Rankings thread

[TheJediBrah]

MacGill was a guy who would take wickets on anything, but probably wouldn't take advantage of really helpful conditions as well. Almost the opposite to a Herath/Jadeja/Ashwin type.

eg. (random numbers here to demonstrate point):
MacGill on a road might average 30. MacGill on a dustbowl might average 25.
Herath on a road might average 50. Herath on a dustbowl might average 12.

I'd much rather have Herath if I was playing on a SL rank-turner, but much rather have MacGill if it was a wicket that wasn't as conducive. Hard to compare such players.

Lyon may be slow through the air for an Asian spinner but he’s always bowled darts compared to most Aussie spinners. I thought however that he increased his speed as well last years India tour.

Not true. He was a loopy mother when he first came on to the scene. He gave the ball a lot more air and bowled slower than most spinners, especially finger spinners, even in that first T20 KFC Bash where he burst on to the scene playing for South Australia.

 

[Daemon]

MacGill was a guy who would take wickets on anything, but probably wouldn't take advantage of really helpful conditions as well. Almost the opposite to a Herath/Jadeja/Ashwin type.

eg. (random numbers here to demonstrate point):
MacGill on a road might average 30. MacGill on a dustbowl might average 25.
Herath on a road might average 50. Herath on a dustbowl might average 12.

I'd much rather have Herath if I was playing on a SL rank-turner, but much rather have MacGill if it was a wicket that wasn't as conducive. Hard to compare such players.



Not true. He was a loopy mother when he first came on to the scene. He gave the ball a lot more air and bowled slower than most spinners, especially finger spinners, even in that first T20 KFC Bash where he burst on to the scene playing for South Australia.

Yeah when that highlights package of his wickets came out everyone was jizzing over the flight and loop.

Funny how he's pretty **** in those formats now.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Funny that they picked him for Tests in SL on the back of his T20 bowling, then he was lucky enough to get a debut on a dustbowl and take 5/30. If SOK was given that chance (as he should have been) he'd have done the same, probably better, and have been in the side ever since (dependent on his alcoholism and ****iness)

 

[cnerd123]

By what I've seen and read, it's SOK alcoholism and ****iness why he didn't get much of a chance for Australia to begin with. Kinda like Cosgrove being fat.

 

[TheJediBrah]

By what I've seen and read, it's SOK alcoholism and ****iness why he didn't get much of a chance for Australia to begin with. Kinda like Cosgrove being fat.

How do you explain Warne though. He more than dabbled in both categories.

 

[cnerd123]

Different era. Back then that's what being an Australian cricketer was all about. Now if you get caught cheating on the field you cry about it in a presser and ask for forgiveness. Imagine Steve Waugh doing that ****.


Seriously you guys have become soft.

 

[harsh.ag]

How do you explain Warne though. He more than dabbled in both categories.

An era when Boon was allowed to lie topless on the players' balcony

 

[Prince EWS]

f***, just deleted a massive post when trying to edit it. So annoying. Is there any way to bring it back mods?

Just reading through this thread and got to this. It was a couple of days ago so you probably don't want it dug back up anymore, but I still can if you like.

 

[mr_mister]

It's all good, I rewrote the Wardle post. Thanks anyway

 

[The Battlers Prince]

Not true. He was a loopy mother when he first came on to the scene. He gave the ball a lot more air and bowled slower than most spinners, especially finger spinners, even in that first T20 KFC Bash where he burst on to the scene playing for South Australia.

Lyon bowls at around 90+kph, Warne, MacGill, Hauritz all topped out at about 86-87 for their stock delivery.

 

[Starfighter]

 

[cnerd123]

Lyon bowls at around 90+kph, Warne, MacGill, Hauritz all topped out at about 86-87 for their stock delivery.

He only bowls that speed in the subcontinent. He's slower when outside.

Swann did the same thing - bowled quicker with more sidespin when he toured India with Monty, but bowls slower and with more overspin when playing overseas

 

[Starfighter]

He only bowls that speed in the subcontinent. He's slower when outside.

I dunno, he bowled a lot over 90 km/h in the last Ashes iirc. Before it used to be 88 km/h, remorselessly, for over after over.

 

[Prince EWS]

Regardless of the pace he bowls, he definitely bowls with a lot more overspin than this generation's Asian spinners.

 

[cnerd123]

I dunno, he bowled a lot over 90 km/h in the last Ashes iirc. Before it used to be 88 km/h, remorselessly, for over after over.

maybe it's seeped into his overall bowling now. Was slower before the India tour.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Funny how players can change over time

 

[The Battlers Prince]

maybe it's seeped into his overall bowling now. Was slower before the India tour.

Yeah he definitely increased his speed in India

 

[Bolo]

Lyon vs RSA at the start of the year was the only time I've noticed him. He tried a number of things in the air. Angles, pace, drift, dip. He was attacking with the ball in air as a primary method rather than a variation or some added issue. He was moving it around through the air a lot. Looked like a real challenge to track to me. Obviously not though, the bats seemed fine with the ball moving in the air.

After it pitched he was looking for either topspin or sidespin (I think in only one direction). The pitches were offering reasonable turn all series. He was catching a little from time to time, but usually not enough to really be threatening. He was trying a thousand different things, but not really flight and rip so while it was not his intention he ended up in the same position as a SC spinner doing a holding job because the pitch isn't doing it for him.

 

[marc71178]

This is silly. Tahir skids them thru. MacGill ripped the hell out of it. It was actually MacGill's erratic-ness that made him such a wicket taker.

In spite of all the post from anti-MacGill advocates, MacGill was an out and out wicket taker, and match winner. In the entire history of test cricket, the only spinner with more WPM are Murali, Grimmett, Blythe, Peel and Warne.

An out and out wicket taker who took wickets a hell of a lot more often when there was a world class spinner at the other end? SR with Warne was under 42 but when Warne disappears its over 62? WPM dropping to 4.5 without Warne is also quite a drop when you consider that he was leading the attack.

 

[stephen]

An out and out wicket taker who took wickets a hell of a lot more often when there was a world class spinner at the other end? SR with Warne was under 42 but when Warne disappears its over 62? WPM dropping to 4.5 without Warne is also quite a drop when you consider that he was leading the attack.

To understand this you need to look a bit closer.

When he played with Warne it was usually because the conditions were right for two spinners. A large portion of the time he played as the solo spinner was against India in 03 while Warne was banned. The same India who annihilated Warne and Murali. He averaged 50 vs India. The rest of the time as solo spinner he had good times and bad times but it's not easy to extrapolate from these data sets. The with Warne dataset is obviously too favourable but the without Warne dataset under sells his abilities.

Arguably Australia lost the 05 Ashes because MacGill was sitting on the sidelines while Warne took 40 wickets while Lee, Dizzy and Kasper bowled absolute filthy puss.

MacGill would have been seen as one of the best modern spinners if he'd been born a decade before or after he was, or if he was born English.