Why does Pakistan traditionally produce better fast bowlers than India?

[TheJediBrah]

Runs per Innings almost same
One scored much much faster.. And was capable of ATG performances against top quality attacks including greatest ever bowling attack in the history.

Still he is not better among the two. Great.

Why use runs per innings when you have average, which is a much more accurate stat for judging who was better?

It wouldn't be because it happens to paint Kapil in a better light would it?

 

[Starfighter]

Why use runs per innings when you have average, which is a much more accurate stat for judging who was better?

It wouldn't be because it happens to paint Kapil in a better light would it?

Ding!

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Why use runs per innings when you have average, which is a much more accurate stat for judging who was better?

It wouldn't be because it happens to paint Kapil in a better light would it?

Normally, a higher average indicates more runs/innings. Why it is different here?

Kallis or Lara who is better batsman? Whats their averages?

Imran was a bowling allrounder for 80% of his career.
His Batting avg for this phase is 32.8.. Not much different from Kapil's 31. Also Kapil scored more runs per innings. He scored much more quickly too.

Innings per 100
Imran - 25.5
Kapil - 23

Innings per 50
Imran - 9.3
Kapil - 6.8

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Ding!

Raw Average doesn't mean anything

Andy Gantueme is not the greatest batsman ever.

Ta da.

 

[Starfighter]

Raw Average doesn't mean anything

Andy Gantueme is not the greatest batsman ever.

Ta da.

That's why averages usually have a qualification. Do you know who also tops the list in terms of runs per innings? Andy Gantueme! Clearly, according to your criteria, he is the greatest batsman ever.

 

[Starfighter]

Normally, a higher average indicates more runs/innings. Why it is different here?

Kallis or Lara who is better batsman? Whats their averages?

Imran was a bowling allrounder for 80% of his career.
His Batting avg for this phase is 32.8.. Not much different from Kapil's 31. Also Kapil scored more runs per innings. He scored much more quickly too.

Innings per 100
Imran - 25.5
Kapil - 23

Innings per 50
Imran - 9.3
Kapil - 6.8

You clearly don't have a clue about how averages interact with not-outs and opportunities for run scoring. And your career slicing has already been proven invalid multiple times.

 

[trundler]

Imran's batting average being artificially inflated is just fact though. Still think he was the better bat.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

That's why averages usually have a qualification. Do you know who also tops the list in terms of runs per innings? Andy Gantueme! Clearly, according to your criteria, he is the greatest batsman ever.

No, because i gave different reasons too.. Like innings per 100, strike rate, performance against top quality opponents.. Etc.
Andy Gantueme is your Best batsman because he averages 100 plus and that is the most accurate way to judge a batsman. Right?

 

[Starfighter]

No, because i gave different reasons too.. Like innings per 100, strike rate, performance against top quality opponents.. Etc.
Andy Gantueme is your Best batsman because he averages 100 plus and that is the most accurate way to judge a batsman. Right?

You are arguing a complete non-sequitur here. You are trying to say that averages aren't a good measure because of Andy Ganteaume, even though the exact same problem with Ganteaume comes from your (and only your) preferred measure of runs/innings (as a matter of fact, Ganteaume's average and r/i are the same​). That's why average lists usually have a qualification of, say, 1000 runs or 20 innings or whatever. It's about sample size and representativeness. In this case Imran and Kapil are drawing from a sample size far large enough to be representative, so their averages are perfectly valid ways to compare them. The only reason you prefer runs/innings is because it narrows the gap between the two and then you can use your sophistry and arbitrary slicing to try make Kapil seem better.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You clearly don't have a clue about how averages interact with not-outs and opportunities for run scoring. And your career slicing has already been proven invalid multiple times.

Career slicing is not invalid. In that case you can not do that in home /away , minnows / best of the era.. Etc
Here Imran clearly not a bowling allrounder after 80% of the career.
When you compare Imran to Miller, Kapil, Botham, Hadlee, Pollock.. Etc he is a 32avg batsman not 37. (even that 32plus is inflated with not outs though)

I know not outs means not outs. But the productivity is still below expectations. Its out of proportion. Where are those actual runs? End of the day, he scored like a 32 avg batsman not 37. (that includes specialist batsman phase)

 

[Kirkut]

Pakistan has hardly produced an established fast bowler since the retirement of Showbiz Actor, our team on the other hand don't have world class fast bowlers yet but certainly a competitive bowling line up now.

 

[harsh.ag]

Pakistan has hardly produced an established fast bowler since the retirement of Showbiz Actor, our team on the other hand doesn't have world class fast bowlers yet but certainly a competitive bowling line up now.

So does Pakistan.

 

[the big bambino]

Showbiz actor (smirk).

 

[Kirkut]

BK averages 26 compared to Amir's 31. Someone needs to eat more broccoli

 

[the big bambino]

Well ok but I think its pertinent to point out Amir missed 5 years (deservedly).

 

[vcs]

Also, Bhuvi gets picked only to play on green wickets while Amir has to play on the UAE roads. Saying that, Amir has still been underwhelming since his return (though he's improved in the last few series).

Will be interesting to see how Abbas goes on flat tracks, he's started his career very well.

 

[Kirkut]

Even PakPassion folks are coming out of Amir hype. You guys can do better

 

[Starfighter]

Career slicing is not invalid. In that case you can not do that in home /away , minnows / best of the era.. Etc
Here Imran clearly not a bowling allrounder after 80% of the career.
When you compare Imran to Miller, Kapil, Botham, Hadlee, Pollock.. Etc he is a 32avg batsman not 37. (even that 32plus is inflated with not outs though)

I know not outs means not outs. But the productivity is still below expectations. Its out of proportion. Where are those actual runs? End of the day, he scored like a 32 avg batsman not 37. (that includes specialist batsman phase)

Well, if you want a career slice, I like this one: All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo
It includes all series from 79/80 against India up until 89/90, also against India, he took a full bowling workload in most of these series. This is just as valid a career slice as yours. I believe Kapil never had a 50-odd test run where he had similar averages with bat and ball to those.

Here's some r.i's

Lara: 51.52 (ave 52.88)
Tendulkar 48.39 (ave 53.78)
G Smith: 45.20 (ave 48.25)
Cook 42.59 (ave 45.11)
Chanderpaul: 42.38 (ave 51.37)
Waugh: 42.02 (ave 51.06)

Do some of these look a bit surprising to you? Clearly Lara is way better than the rest and Graeme Smith is a surprising dark horse. Heck, Cook's better than Waugh or Chanderpaul! Do you see how, when compared to their averages, r/i varies widely? There's no quality-related coupling between the two.

 

[Borges]

Amir would have been a great bowler but for that match fixing fiasco.
ATG (which means very good all the time), not ATVG (which ironically means not very good all the time). I hope I got that right at last.

 

[Kirkut]

Zaheer Khan would have been an ATG had he played half of his tests in Eng/NZ and maintained fitness.

Even better: Australia would have never won the world cup had Gibbs taken that catch. They undeservedly won that cup.