Why does Pakistan traditionally produce better fast bowlers than India?

[cnerd123]

I think Cas doesn't know which one is India and which one is Pakistan


Dev is an ATVG bowler. Won't get into an India/Pak join XI as a pure bowler, but I'd definitely play him alongside Imran. Basically Imran/Dev/Wasim/Kumble/Waqar with either 4 batsmen/1 keeper/2nd spinner or 5 batsmen/1 keeper for me.

If you want 5 batsmen and 2 spinners then Dev misses out.

 

[cnerd123]

At the very best, Kapil is the 4th best Asian quick bowler. That's probably generous given Shoaib is probably better than him.

But who is the second best Indian quick of all time and where does he fit in the Asian fast bowling pecking order?

Srinath. Probably cracks the Top 10 of Asian Fast bowlers, at worst Top 15

 

[jimmy101]

I think two spinners for an all-time Asia XI is a must. When picking ATG teams, I always imagine they're playing on home soil.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Srinath. Probably cracks the Top 10 of Asian Fast bowlers, at worst Top 15

Yea agree with that. It's a toss up between him and Zaheer. Zaheer for longeivity/fitness, but a "peak" Srinath was better. Think he was also badly mismanged (as with so many promising Indian fast bowlers?). He was never world class, but he initially had searing pace (hit 90+ quite a few times if I recall). He had a wretched first two years in test cricket, and then a really bad last year which really hurt his average (10 tests @ 40.95).

In between that (1993-2001), he played 49 tests and picked up 197 wickets @ 27.87. Very respectable for an Indian fast bowler (vs 67 tests @ 30.49). He only had 2 years where he was 30+ (1994 and 1997) and it wasn't that bad. Had most years around 27, with a couple of sub 20s.

Compare that to Zaheer, who, looking at these yearly averages, really didn't have many standout years, and when he did, they were sporadic with no real sense of consistency (2002, 15 tests @ 29; 2007, 9 tests @ 25.73, and then the period between 2010-2011 where he averaged sub 23.5 in both years. The rest of the years he often went for mid-30 or even 40+ averages).

 

[CricAddict]

Kapil and Imran should both be in the first Indo-Pak XI along with Wasim, Waqar and a spinner. Gives the side good balance and I feel Kapil is being underrated here when many say that he is not as good as Asif/Akhtar. He singlehandedly led India's bowling during his times and was the lone good fast bowler in unresponsive Indian pitches.

 

[nightprowler10]

If we're talking about them at their peaks? I'd pick both as bowlers yea. But Dev obviously the better all-round cricketer

Basically this. If you want Kapil in the conversation, have a different conversation. He is not ahead of any of the bowlers mentioned as a pacer only.

 

[trundler]

Imran Khan as fifth bowler I think would be wasted. He's too good a bowler to be bowling only a dozen or so overs. Should be played as one of the frontline pacers. Kapil is a good enough fifth bowler but he's still an inferior bat to Khan and with him as the bowling all rounder already, Kapil becomes difficult to fit in. I see a better case for Mankad as the second spinner/all rounder since it's an Asian team. Or simply get Hazare/Tendulkar to jump in as the fifth bowler since they wouldn't be bowling many. The lack of a batting all rounder is a bit of a problem.

 

[jimmy101]

Imran Khan as fifth bowler I think would be wasted. He's too good a bowler to be bowling only a dozen or so overs. Should be played as one of the frontline pacers. Kapil is a good enough fifth bowler but he's still an inferior bat to Khan and with him as the bowling all rounder already, Kapil becomes difficult to fit in. I see a better case for Mankad as the second spinner/all rounder since it's an Asian team. Or simply get Hazare/Tendulkar to jump in as the fifth bowler since they wouldn't be bowling many. The lack of a batting all rounder is a bit of a problem.

True, but you gotta remember that a 5th bowler in an ATG side needs to be very good as they'll be bowling to ATG opposition. Imran fits the role perfectly imo (Mankad if you're inclined to opt for a spin AR). Sachin & Hazare wouldn't be very effective bowling to the likes of Hobbs/Bradman.

 

[the big bambino]

Basically this. If you want Kapil in the conversation, have a different conversation. He is not ahead of any of the bowlers mentioned as a pacer only.

He’s better than Shoaib as a bowler alone.

 

[trundler]

There's also the question of which Imran I'm getting. Almost certainly I'd want the one who averaged almost as good as Sydney Barnes for a decade but wasn't at his peak as a batsman. I'll take Mankad as the fifth bowler.

 

[CricAddict]

How good is the chance of Ashwin getting into the first Indo-Pak XI if Imran, Wasim and Waqar are the pacers? He can bat a bit too.

 

[trundler]

How good is the chance of Ashwin getting into the first Indo-Pak XI if Imran, Wasim and Waqar are the pacers? He can bat a bit too.

If they're playing at home then Ashwin walks in for me. Must say, with Khan, Kirimani and Akram also this would be a gun lower order as strong as any.

 

[TheJediBrah]

How good is the chance of Ashwin getting into the first Indo-Pak XI if Imran, Wasim and Waqar are the pacers? He can bat a bit too.

I would pick Ashwin ahead of Kumble

 

[vcs]

Kumble > Ashwin

I'd trust him far more to bowl teams out on a 4th-5th day pitch. Ashwin may change this going forward, but let's see.

 

[trundler]

If I'm guaranteed to be playing at home I'll take Ashwin but if not, I'll take Gupte or Chandra owing to their comparatively smaller disparity between home and away records.

 

[vcs]

If you gave Kumble enough runs to play with, he rarely failed to deliver, even if the pitch was flat (see Australia 2003-04 and Pakistan 2004). There's been a couple of occasions (away) where Ashwin has let us down, but it's still a small sample size for him.

Kumble mainly sucked in Sri Lanka who had some great batsmen around that time, Ashwin has bowled to a much poorer lot.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ashwin can bat good tho so you don't need inferior Kapil in the team for batting depth. Heck, even pick both. Look at that batting depth. Then you can pick a genuine keeper like Wasim Bari if you want (I've heard he was good)

1
2
3
4
5
Imran
Ashwin
Wasim Akram
Wasim Bari
Kumble
Waqar

 

[trundler]

Ashwin can bat good tho so you don't need inferior Kapil in the team for batting depth. Heck, even pick both. Look at that batting depth. Then you can pick a genuine keeper like Wasim Bari if you want (I've heard he was good)

1
2
3
4
5
Imran
Ashwin
Wasim Akram
Wasim Bari
Kumble
Waqar

Kirimani stood up wonderfully to Chandrasekhar's medium paced spin. Chandra inspired Kumble's style as well. To my knowledge, Kirimani was as clean as Knott though he had one bad series. He also almost scored a century before lunch. Should be the keeper'. Strengthens the lower order and gives you a tested elite keeper to Kumble's style.
With
This team bats down to ten! Only SA can boast a similarly strong lower order.

 

[Coronis]

Kirimani stood up wonderfully to Chandrasekhar's medium paced spin. Chandra inspired Kumble's style as well. To my knowledge, Kirimani was as clean as Knott though he had one bad series. He also almost scored a century before lunch. Should be the keeper'. Strengthens the lower order and gives you a tested elite keeper to Kumble's style.
With
This team bats down to ten! Only SA can boast a similarly strong lower order.

This has been bugging me, so please stop calling him Kirimani. Its Kirmani.

 

[srbhkshk]

Kirimani stood up wonderfully to Chandrasekhar's medium paced spin. Chandra inspired Kumble's style as well. To my knowledge, Kirimani was as clean as Knott though he had one bad series. He also almost scored a century before lunch. Should be the keeper'. Strengthens the lower order and gives you a tested elite keeper to Kumble's style.
With
This team bats down to ten! Only SA can boast a similarly strong lower order.

I actually think that's a poor batting line up.

It really doesn't - Akram and Kumble will occasionally contribute but that's about it. Imran and Ashwin are weaker 6/7 than any ATG side will have normally.