*Official* India Tour of England 2018

[TheJediBrah]

It flummoxes me that someone with Lee Germon's ability was considered to play international cricket at all

 

[Gnske]

India got to bowl when there was a fair bit of help for the quick bowlers; and England didn't manage to survive that small window.
For the most part, when India have been batting conditions were more favourable for batting.

I dare you to say this on reddit and not have your nuts chopped into bird feed.

 

[TheJediBrah]

this is why India should support Day Night Tests though. It might actually help them be competitive when they come to Aus because the conditions you happen to get while batting/bowling can decide games.

 

[Starfighter]

Has there ever been a time when India's attack has outpaced England's before? I can't think of one before the current lot from the 2016 series on.

 

[Top_Cat]

Nothing in the conditions yesterday were particularly in favour of India, they just used the prevailing conditions better and England’s bats were ****. The deck didn’t miraculously flatten out in the afternoon session when India were going at 5/over. India’s frailties in defence cost them at Lords and they haven’t gotten rid of them but one thing you can sure change is your mindset and there’s been a clear difference in their approach with the bat.

For mine, the Root catch was out. The debate gets forensic and nonsense when we can’t actually resolve it to that level anyway (do blades of grass touching the ball in the fielder’s hands count as ‘grounded’?) and the ball bobbling about does make it look worse than it is. Actual cricketers of any level would claim that catch every time.

 

[vcs]

We need a lot of luck going our way to get back into this series, hope we keep getting the best of conditions. England keep winning the bloody toss which doesn't help.

 

[trundler]

Has there ever been a time when India's attack has outpaced England's before? I can't think of one before the current lot from the 2016 series on.

Nissar and Amar?

 

[Starfighter]

Nissar and Amar?

Bowes and Voce might have averaged faster, though Nissar was faster than either. Amar Singh was fast medium in the Bedser/Tate mould, probably a bit slower than bowlers called fast-medium today.

Edit: India's attack at Bombay in '33 would be faster though.

 

[SeamUp]

Bumrah should be no where near test cricket with that action but he found a way to compete in SA so it does seem he has the balls for this stuff.

Thought he worried the England batsmen yesterday. Hits the seam and jags back remarkably (tough to judge with angle) and then has one that holds it line and straightens. Almost Ntini-like.

 

[rparikh14]

It is remarkable how Bumrah operates at near-express pace, having got a short, almost hopping run up and a very unconventional action since he doesn't bend his arm in the run up at all.

 

[Pratters]

Holding compared him to Walsh yesterday. How he bowled from so wide and thus it was difficult to leave deliveries. Root had missed one outside off. He said that the wide angle forces the players to play far more as you never know which ones come back.

 

[Jack1]

The Sky Sports podcast makes for some hilarous listening, a standard discussion hopefully captured below

Charles: What is the problem with England's batting?

Bob: Well Charles, I am afraid they are simply not good enough. Poor CC scheduling, too many coaches, players being picked on reputation etc

Guest (usually a former player): I disagree, i think they are good enough, it's just a mindset, look at what the ODI team has achieved, look at how destructive the middle order can be, Cook will come right, look how well they played just last month etc.

Bob Willis actually says it as it is. He has a pair and therefore gives his opinion rather than hiding from reality. I don’t always agree with what he says, but I respect him for not sitting on the fence or ***** footing about. A lot of the pundits on sky sports are trash. Botham is another one not scared to give his opinion. Even if I disagree with him sometimes I can at least respect him for doing his job properly. Sitting on the fence is offensive to the viewers and wasting everyone’s time. They are international cricketers, not school kids.

Anyhow, England have been a disgrace this game. And a true fan like me or Willis will be fuming.

 

[Top_Cat]

It's not a bad comparison but Bumrah doesn't have a leg-cutter like Walsh and won't be a regular threat as a Test quick until he does. Hooping them in on his default length won't threaten Test bats for long.

And again we see Cricinfo with a pointless hit piece on Cook's batting. Yeah he's **** right now and yeah it's probably a permanent decline but unless someone in England starts scoring some runs, he's still in the top-6 bats in the country. Christ, just need to have a look at the bloke walking out with him to see how little competition he has. Sure, if England lose the series and wanna take a broom to the top-order, then fine but there are a couple of others in the same line-up who are closer to the chopping block than Cook.

 

[Prince EWS]

I don't think I've ever seen someone otherwise as good as Bumrah with a worse seam presentation. I always image him just bowling with a solid-colour red (or white) sphere because the seam surely plays absolutely no role in what the ball does after it leaves his hand. I'm always mildly surprised if he moves one in the air, and he's actually done that a fair bit in this Test. If his seam presentation was even just meh rather than abysmal he'd be a real threat as a Test bowler.

 

[Top_Cat]

The mixed seam could be an asset with that leg-cutter, though.

The other quicks must hate him. Having him in the team kills any chance of reverse.

 

[Prince EWS]

The mixed seam could be an asset with that leg-cutter, though.

It's not that he's got the wobble going on where it kind of lands on half the seam with it pointing one way or the other like Clark or Pollock though. There seems to be as much chance of the ball just landing entirely cross-seam accidentally as there does of it landing on it conventionally. I'm not even convinced he actually consciously puts his fingers on the same part of the ball when he balls -- he almost just seems to treat it like a tennis ball. It's the weirdest thing.

 

[SeamUp]

That's one of the great things. If the bowler has no idea which way it is going to go then how do the batsmen

And he did get a few to straighten and then the difficulty about the angled jag backers is they seem to skid and rush you.

 

[Pratters]

Guys like Bumrah and Pandya are incredible talents. I can't believe the strides Bumrah has taken in his career. Same with Pandya. I remember seeing Pandya first time in an IPL final and thought, this guy has talent. The way he meddled the ball earlier when other players were struggling, with so much ease, just shows how he is special. Bowling wise, he had struggled in the first two tests but here he was, bowling better. If he adds some variations, he will become more useful. Holding was not wrong in saying he doesn't look a test cricketer from the first two tests as his bowling was average and batting wasn't at par with a specialist bat. However, he looks much better.

The thing with these two cricketers is that they are not talentless hacks. I have seen so many Indian cricketers going abroad and not being able to bowl the right lines, straying every where, not beng able to bowl the right lengths etc. With so little experience, they are already better than those multitude of cricketers. They are fast learners and that's good news for India. We want more of these kind of talented cricketers who can improve and make the most of their abilities.

 

[SeamUp]

And again we see Cricinfo with a pointless hit piece on Cook's batting. Yeah he's **** right now and yeah it's probably a permanent decline but unless someone in England starts scoring some runs, he's still in the top-6 bats in the country. Christ, just need to have a look at the bloke walking out with him to see how little competition he has. Sure, if England lose the series and wanna take a broom to the top-order, then fine but there are a couple of others in the same line-up who are closer to the chopping block than Cook.

Whilst I do agree that senior "legend" deserve to go out when they want to there are times they carry on too long.

Considering some of his contempories are retiring at a similar age to him it shouldn't be out the question test retirement.

It all depends on the value they feel Cook is bringing to the squad and whilst they winning at home all is fine.

But I didn't think of it like this before but what if Cook is so absorbed by wanting to end his struggles his new opening partners may not be in the right frame of mind ? Sometimes a freshness and a brashness is needed to get out of a hole.

Individually I think Cook is finished at this level but maybe as a senior player is what determines his future. How selectors look at that.

 

[StephenZA]

I still think people are underestimating the Indian pace attack. If Bhuvneshwar was not injured I would rate it at least equal to England's.

I wonder if any international teams are starting to realise the importance of acclimatising is, particularly for batsmen. Still think the lack of acclimatization may be the biggest issue with the home/away performances with most Test series being 2 or 3 matches. After India beat SA at Wanderers, it would have been interesting if there had been another 2 tests?