Australian Domestic Off Season 2018

[KRIS 148]

Kris not sure televised yet,hunting around the Indian sites atm.
I think Kurt Patterson is a smokey,Handscomb will have a good series.
Bowling wise my money on Swepson and Tremain,and Jhye Richardson,maybe Brendon Doggart.

I like those three bowlers. Jury out on Doggett for me. Handscomb needs a good series after a shocking last season. One thing going for him is he is a good player of spin. Patterson also says he has been working hard on his spin play. I expect Ashton Agar to also put up his hand. This bloke has untapped talent with bat and ball. Also like the progress of Alex Carey. He could really surprise.

 

[Burgey]

#Bertmentum will be Australia's test wicket keeper within 18 months.
- Burgey

 

[Burgey]

Also, just on these under 19s young blokes NSW has given full contracts to, it's a joke. These kids have not proven themselves at first grade level yet. The fact they were so rapidly endorsed at such young ages is not a sign of overwhelmingly prodigious talent as it is abject desperation.

 

[social]

Unless things have radically changed, there’s a massive difference between playing against kids your own age and against men

Ridiculous that they’re favoured over decent A graders

 

[KRIS 148]

#Bertmentum will be Australia's test wicket keeper within 18 months.
- Burgey

Bertmentum? Not with you.

These 19s? Param Uppal and Tom Engelbrect who both bat and bowl seemingly adjusted well to Futures cricket with strong performances. Jack Edwards did alright although much expected from Jason Sangha after scoring a 100 against England but couldn't do much in Futures.

I would prefer Blues selectors blooded these talented kids over the likes of Nick Larkin. Other states do. Expecting Sangha to have a breakout season now he is finally in the big time. Tho still waiting with bated breath for something similar from Ryan Gibson.

 

[Burgey]

I disagree with that approach so much. Young blokes need to prove themselves week in and week out against seasoned men before they get a FC contract. Otherwise it makes a mockery of Premier cricket. If a kid comes along like a young Waugh or Smith and is playing first grade at 16-18 and brains it for a year or two, fine, get him a contract.

One of the real problems with pathway systems is blokes get fast tracked to a point where they are promoted without actually testing themselves regularly against the best blokes in their State competitions.

That and burn out.

 

[Burgey]

Like, there’s a huge difference between IDing talent and properly nurturing it so it reaches its potential. Try teaching young cricketers to deal with disappointment. It’s a nightmare.

When my young bloke missed out on playing round one in Grade last year it was like his world ended, despite how many first graders and Shield players said to him, “Mate you’re 15.” And he’s not a kid who’s been cosseted with Junior rep stuff. He had to score bulk runs at club level to get there over three years. Some of the kids who’ve been IDed since under 11s are so entitled it’s ridiculous. It’s not that they can’t play or won’t nexessarily make it, it’s that they get fast tracked to the point it’s ridiculous.

Welcome to the forum btw Kris. Good to have someone new who’s interested in domestic cricket

 

[KRIS 148]

I disagree with that approach so much. Young blokes need to prove themselves week in and week out against seasoned men before they get a FC contract. Otherwise it makes a mockery of Premier cricket. If a kid comes along like a young Waugh or Smith and is playing first grade at 16-18 and brains it for a year or two, fine, get him a contract.

One of the real problems with pathway systems is blokes get fast tracked to a point where they are promoted without actually testing themselves regularly against the best blokes in their State competitions.

That and burn out.

Fair point. Just as well tho Qld selectors did not have this policy in mind otherwise we would not have seen Matt Renshaw now opening for Australia or Sam Heazlett doing good things for the Banana boys. Or WACA for sticking its neck out and handing 17 year old Cameron Green his shield debut. Took a five for if memory serves. My point is sometimes it is worth taking a punt on prodigious talent.

 

[KRIS 148]

Welcome to the forum btw Kris. Good to have someone new who’s interested in domestic cricket

Many thanks Burgey. Love talking cricket.

 

[Burgey]

Fair point. Just as well tho Qld selectors did not have this policy in mind otherwise we would not have seen Matt Renshaw now opening for Australia or Sam Heazlett doing good things for the Banana boys. Or WACA for sticking their neck out and handing 17 year old Cameron Green his shield debut. Took a five for if memory serves. My point is sometimes it is worth taking a punt on prodigious talent.

I'm not saying there are circumstances where it doesn't work, but I think the problem is once someone is earmarked from a young age they can tend to skate into reckoning without literally putting runs on the board. If a bloke is a stand out young talent he will make his way into first grade at a really young age and prosper. Th eidea of giving a school kid a full blown State contract when he hasn't scored a first grade ton seems illogical to me.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Yeah, I personally think it is different for batsman than it is for fast bowlers, definitely think batsman are much better served by a few seasons to master their craft at grade level. Young quicks on the other hand are more worth gambling on, Grade Cricket (here in Adelaide at least) tends to be dominated by hardworking but limited medium pacers, most of whom simply wouldn't cut it at first class level.

 

[KRIS 148]

I'm not saying there are circumstances where it doesn't work, but I think the problem is once someone is earmarked from a young age they can tend to skate into reckoning without literally putting runs on the board. If a bloke is a stand out young talent he will make his way into first grade at a really young age and prosper. Th eidea of giving a school kid a full blown State contract when he hasn't scored a first grade ton seems illogical to me.

With you on your last para. Could also send the wrong signal to a kid.

I did a summary of last seasons shield on a former forum. If I can locate it wanna see it?

 

[KRIS 148]

Yeah, I personally think it is different for batsman than it is for fast bowlers, definitely think batsman are much better served by a few seasons to master their craft at grade level. Young quicks on the other hand are more worth gambling on, Grade Cricket (here in Adelaide at least) tends to be dominated by hardworking but limited medium pacers, most of whom simply wouldn't cut it at first class level.

Is that the possible reason why SACA prefers to import their state bowlers? I am so against that over giving the home grown product a chance. How are blokes like David Grant, who I rate, since he castled Hashim Amla with a snorter, supposed to get exposure at state level when imports like Mennie, Worrall are picked in their place. Even Kane Richardson was imported. At least Chadd Sayers is a local product. Or is he? The same applies to Tassie.

 

[morgieb]

Yeah, I personally think it is different for batsman than it is for fast bowlers, definitely think batsman are much better served by a few seasons to master their craft at grade level. Young quicks on the other hand are more worth gambling on, Grade Cricket (here in Adelaide at least) tends to be dominated by hardworking but limited medium pacers, most of whom simply wouldn't cut it at first class level.

Yeah there's often far too many cases of limited bowlers dominating the next level down but not having enough tools for the highest level, I think it's fair enough to go on the eye test there typically (especially in Australia). Batsman should never be rushed unless they're out and out dominating though.

 

[TheJediBrah]

That's the thing about contracts though Burgey. They're not saying "you're in the team and will play every game". It's a financial incentive to keep the talent from leaving.

I agree it has definite downsides though and can absolutely send the wrong message.

 

[mr_mister]

The biggest shock for me going from juniors to seniors was the difference in bowling. Granted I started in a low grade for seniors, but it was crazy in juniors because every single player practiced their bowling and all 11 of us considered ourself all rounders. In seniors it felt like there were only 2 players who gave a stuff about bowling and everyone else threw down pies. Throughout the whole comp.

The senior players could bat way better though. With nearly the whole side capable of scoring big runs

 

[Burgey]

With you on your last para. Could also send the wrong signal to a kid.

I did a summary of last seasons shield on a former forum. If I can locate it wanna see it?

Yeah why not?

 

[Burgey]

That's the thing about contracts though Burgey. They're not saying "you're in the team and will play every game". It's a financial incentive to keep the talent from leaving.

I agree it has definite downsides though and can absolutely send the wrong message.

Very true. That's why I put such decent offers to The Burgey Team.
- Burgey

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm not saying there are circumstances where it doesn't work, but I think the problem is once someone is earmarked from a young age they can tend to skate into reckoning without literally putting runs on the board. If a bloke is a stand out young talent he will make his way into first grade at a really young age and prosper. Th eidea of giving a school kid a full blown State contract when he hasn't scored a first grade ton seems illogical to me.

That's the thing about contracts though Burgey. They're not saying "you're in the team and will play every game". It's a financial incentive to keep the talent from leaving.

I agree it has definite downsides though and can absolutely send the wrong message.

Yeah I'm okay with the contracts to promising players. I just don't think "oh he has a contract" should suddenly mean someone is in line for selection.

Give the young stars cash to keep them in the state if you have to (and you kind of do), but don't select them until they've actually done something. Especially if they're bats.

 

[stephen]

The biggest shock for me going from juniors to seniors was the difference in bowling. Granted I started in a low grade for seniors, but it was crazy in juniors because every single player practiced their bowling and all 11 of us considered ourself all rounders. In seniors it felt like there were only 2 players who gave a stuff about bowling and everyone else threw down pies. Throughout the whole comp.

The senior players could bat way better though. With nearly the whole side capable of scoring big runs

Opportunities for bowlers to progress are so much harder though. For a fast bowler if you cannot start at 125+ you have no hope of developing to an international standard. It's also harder to impress, particularly for spin bowlers since you're limited buy how good of a buddy you are with the captain to get overs. And if your team can't catch, which they likely can't at the lower levels you can never impress.

Batsmen though have a much more relaxing time in senior cricket, which is probably why more of them stay.