Worst Player to Play 100 Tests?

[straw man]

How Vettori should fit into the NZ side, particularly later in his career where the rest of the bowling was toothless, and how little his performances contributed to winning matches as opposed to losing less badly, was always something for debate in NZ threads.

That said, just comparing spin bowlers I struggle to rate his 362 wickets at 34.4 much below Harbhajan's 417 at 32.5, when Harbhajan played most of his matches in vastly better conditions for spin bowling. Harbhajan surely contributed more match-winning spells but as his average isn't great, that must've been balanced with a lot of poor ones.

Then add Vettori's 4500 runs and it's pretty easy to rate him above Harbhajan imo.

 

[stephen]

If Vettori was an Australian he would have been like most other offies here - a few games here and there, most off them in India and no real career of note. He'd have been behind Warne and McGill for his entire career while he was a good enough bowler and he'd never have forced his way into the team as a batsman.

 

[Bahnz]

That said, just comparing spin bowlers I struggle to rate his 362 wickets at 34.4 much below Harbhajan's 417 at 32.5, when Harbhajan played most of his matches in vastly better conditions for spin bowling. Harbhajan surely contributed more match-winning spells but as his average isn't great, that must've been balanced with a lot of poor ones.

Then add Vettori's 4500 runs and it's pretty easy to rate him above Harbhajan imo.

Don't necessarily disagree with this, but it has to be remembered that during the second half of his career, Vettori was an epic minnow-basher with the ball. He averaged 12 in Bangladesh, and thoroughly enjoyed himself against a club standard Zim side on several occasions. Remove those guys from the equation and Vettori's average bloats out to 38 while Harbhajan's remains largely unchanged.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If Vettori was an Australian he would have been like most other offies here - a few games here and there, most off them in India and no real career of note. He'd have been behind Warne and McGill for his entire career while he was a good enough bowler and he'd never have forced his way into the team as a batsman.

Post Warne, MacGill & Hogg he would have at least had a shot.

He might have been a bit like SOK though. SOK averaged low-20s in the Shield for years and never got a chance until like 2016-17. I doubt Vettori would have had better FC stats than SOK and it's fair to assume he might have been in a similar boat. Then again every other spinner in the country was tried in that period so I'm sure he Vettori would have been given a crack somewhere.

 

[mr_mister]

would Vettori hold the record for most 100s scored from 8-11? He got 4 batting @ 8 and 1 batting @ 9, which surprised me as I always thought his tons came at 6 after he proved he could bat. But he only hit one there(and only one batting in the top 7)

 

[Athlai]

If Vettori was an Australian he would have been like most other offies here - a few games here and there, most off them in India and no real career of note. He'd have been behind Warne and McGill for his entire career while he was a good enough bowler and he'd never have forced his way into the team as a batsman.

He'd have been an ODI juggernaut and would probably have done pretty darn well with an Australian attack he could sustain pressure with. Vettori and Warne / Vettori and McGrath would've been ridiculously good bowling partnerships.

 

[Athlai]

would Vettori hold the record for most 100s scored from 8-11? He got 4 batting @ 8 and 1 batting @ 9, which surprised me as I always thought his tons came at 6 after he proved he could bat. But he only hit one there(and only one batting in the top 7)

It's an easy mistake to make as the NZ openers for most of Vettori's career were myths. He was #6 if you counted people who could actually bat in the order, and #8 if you decided by how names were written down on a scorecard.

 

[Pratters]

Aussies hardly every played two spinners at home, so he would be an after thought like MacGill, most lively.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He'd have been an ODI juggernaut and would probably have done pretty darn well with an Australian attack he could sustain pressure with. Vettori and Warne / Vettori and McGrath would've been ridiculously good bowling partnerships.

Wouldn't have played ahead of Hogg

 

[jimmy101]

Wouldn't have played ahead of Hogg

If he was from NSW he would have.

 

[Pratters]

I don't know how this is relevant though. Warne would not make the Indian team ahead of Kumble at home.

 

[jimmy101]

I don't know how this is relevant though. Warne would not make the Indian team ahead of Kumble at home.

Why not?

 

[Pratters]

Why not?

As Kumble was god at home. Much rather select an off spinner with him - Harbhajan.

 

[jimmy101]

Indeed, Kumble was the man at home. However, had Warney been a born and bred Indian who knows how could he could have been.

I'd even have Warne & Kumble playing together. They were different types of leg-spinners. I believe they'd compliment each other really well.

 

[Pratters]

Ponting wouldn't make Indian test side at home either..

 

[stephen]

Indeed, Kumble was the man at home. However, had Warney been a born and bred Indian who knows how could he could have been.

I'd even have Warne & Kumble playing together. They were different types of leg-spinners. I believe they'd compliment each other really well.

A poor man's O'Reilly with a rich man's Grimmett.

 

[stephen]

Wouldn't have played ahead of Hogg

Exactly. Australia had excellent spin stocks in both tests and ODIs until around 2009 when we started playing dinky off spinners like Beer. Hauritz was the best of them until Lyon came along.

Vettori, much as I respect his accomplishments was afforded such a successful career by virtue of the side he played for, not his raw talent.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't know how this is relevant though. Warne would not make the Indian team ahead of Kumble at home.

It's relevant because that is literally what the discussion was about. It's the only thing this is relevant.

 

[Mike5181]

2005-09 Vettori was great.

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

 

[stephen]

Dark times for a cricket side when their top two run scorers are their spinner and wicket keeper.