*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Borges]

You are extremely lucky if Vettori is unavailable to coach New Zealand.
Based on what he has done to other teams that he has coached in the past, your team would have been destroyed in the time that it takes to say 'Tonga-Kermadec Ridge'.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

You are extremely lucky if Vettori is unavailable to coach New Zealand.
Based on what he has done to other teams that he has coached in the past, your team would have been destroyed in the time that it takes to say 'Tonga-Kermadec Ridge'.

Yeah Vettorri isn't the real loss. He's just high profile and in demand - but he could help young spinners. But Bond, Flemm and now Adams are big losses.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Besides how much of RCB's woes are Vettorri and how much is Kohli?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Fleming is a huge loss. Loved him as a captain and you can tell he really thinks about the game

 

[NZTailender]

While there's not a huge deal of current players who played alongside Fleming, Vettori and co., I think there's something to be said for a bit of separation between retiring from a side and then coaching it.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

While there's not a huge deal of current players who played alongside Fleming, Vettori and co., I think there's something to be said for a bit of separation between retiring from a side and then coaching it.

Why? Best person for the job should be best person for the job.

Flem retired over 10 years ago anyway. Vettorri may have been useful for Santner, who really is doing a fine job figuring things out for himself in ODI and t20 cricket, but I do feel as thought Vettorri may have been of some more use here. But I wouldn't really want Vettorri coaching NZ.

I do want Bond. I think all NZC fans want him around. And without him, I do want people like Adams and Mills around instead of people like Jurgo. Any time I hear someone who discusses reasoned tactics (Mills and Adams are very much in this group, they are thinkers) instead of motivational talk and cliches, they seem like better men for the job to me.

NZC doesn't have the depths of talent that SA and the big 3 have. To compete, we need to keep thinking ahead of them. Because we won't beat them even at home with motivational sports pysch.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It can affect your judgement if you're coaching mates that you played with, which could potentially interfere with important aspects of coaching a team. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done or is never the best option, but it's definitely a valid concern to have

 

[Mr Miyagi]

It can affect your judgement if you're coaching mates that you played with, which could potentially interfere with important aspects of coaching a team. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done or is never the best option, but it's definitely a valid concern to have

Flemm went straight from playing with CSK to coaching them. They have been hugely successful. He has had to make tough calls on players in this time. I understand concerns of crony-ism or bias, but at ten years out of NZC, I don't recall anyone bar Ross Taylor having played with Flemm.

Vettorri has made his own noose to a degree in public perception with certain players. I don't know how much of RCB is on him, and how much is on Kohli, but Vettorri has a public perception problem that was obviously going to happen if the team failed to deliver.

But I wouldn't want Vettorri as overall coach. He just doesn't have much proven success at top levels like Bond and Flemm do.

It would be great for NZC is we could land a coup and get Tom Moody. Even if just for the World Cup.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Flem is definitely a guy who's value would definitely outweigh any potential downside of person familiarity with players. It's a moot point anyway because it's not like there's many (if any) blokes that he would have played with currently kicking around.

 

[straw man]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12086538

This is getting dire for NZC now.

Bond, Flem, Vettorri, Adams, we're consistently losing our best coaching talent. People who could make a difference to the national team.

Adams struck me as someone who was more than a motivator, but an actual tactician. I hope we can keep Mills in NZ.

Yeah Adams seemed to become a much smarter bowler towards the end of his career so I imagine he's been a good bowling coach. Taking a job overseas for a bit is not the end of the world for NZ cricket though - could easily bring that overseas experience back for NZ at some stage, if NZC want him.

 

[Athlai]

Flem is definitely a guy who's value would definitely outweigh any potential downside of person familiarity with players. It's a moot point anyway because it's not like there's many (if any) blokes that he would have played with currently kicking around.

Southee and Taylor both played in the same Black Caps team as him. It probably grows a bit more if you include domestics or fringe Black Caps chances like Flynn.

The Southee one could be a mild issue but I don't know of any problems.


I doubt it'd be a problem at all with Taylor. Taylor has been able to perform to a high level with a coach that pretty much sold him down the river and under a captain he had some frictionw ith.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Southee and Taylor both played in the same Black Caps team as him. It probably grows a bit more if you include domestics or fringe Black Caps chances like Flynn.

The Southee one could be a mild issue but I don't know of any problems.


I doubt it'd be a problem at all with Taylor. Taylor has been able to perform to a high level with a coach that pretty much sold him down the river and under a captain he had some frictionw ith.

Southee's debut. Of course! He used Flemm's bat

That was Flemm's last game.

 

[straw man]

Couldn't see Fleming being interested in coaching NZ until perhaps his kids are grown up - the IPL deal would be ideal while he has family commitments. If he has any internal desire to coach NZ (and doesn't need to care about losing the IPL money) then it probably still wouldn't be for another decade.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Couldn't see Fleming being interested in coaching NZ until perhaps his kids are grown up - the IPL deal would be ideal while he has family commitments. If he has any internal desire to coach NZ (and doesn't need to care about losing the IPL money) then it probably still wouldn't be for another decade.

That's a slight problem, he doesn't owe NZC a thing and didn't want to lose the captaincy iirc, and that lead to a retirement earlier than expected.

Fleming's relationship with the national selectors, Sir Richard Hadlee, Glenn Turner, Dion Nash and Bracewell, has been strained since they removed the captaincy from New Zealand's most-capped skipper last year. If he does not go to England it will exacerbate the shortage of experience in the test batting lineup.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10491712

Still - I'd be keen for getting Moody in as a consultant for the WC.

 

[straw man]

No Fleming doesn't owe NZC anything and is also not short of other options, so whether he eventually coaches NZ is purely down to whether he ever feels an internal drive to do that.

Moody would be good, yeah.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Some good news for the NZC t20 team given all the wicket keepers burned through last year,

Latham made a good score at a good clip, unfortunately he took down CdG's bowling in the process to do it.

North Group, Vitality Blast at Birmingham, Jul 15 2018 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

Colin is unfortunately still regularly leaking runs, with 1 good bowling display, and 4 less than good.

In worse news, after 1 over for 14, and 1 over for 15, Somerset didn't even bowl Anderson in the last game, but he made a swift 40*.

Bruce is not doing much. Munro's best is a 30. Guppie has two 50's. Sodhi's going very well. So is Milne.

 

[_Ed_]

Colin is unfortunately still regularly leaking runs

But at least he's scoring them too.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

But at least he's scoring them too.

I'm a big fan of his, especially in tests, but he does have a tendency to score runs in losses in both ODI and T20. His averages in these formats are a bit misleading to how the games have gone down.

I can only think of that game when he nailed Pakistan with a 70odd and powered NZ to a win, where he made a real difference with the bat to getting NZ a winning result. He has had difficulty when being asked to bat against wrist spinners with overs up their sleeves, too.

I still think NZC needs a form all-rounder for the world cup, be it Anderson or CdG, but neither are really getting it done still.

Anderson seems reluctant to bang the ball in post surgery, and CdG is still learning the bowling game in pyjamas with the ball and continually needs Munro to bail him out of his quota.

To be honest, I want them both in form and in the squad demanding selection, but right now, it seems to be who is the lesser evil - which isn't an ideal selection.

It doesn't seem at all surprising that Hess was trying Astle last year to be honest who may yet still be in the reckoning, (even Kitchen in T20i while surprising, it is clear what Hesson was trying to get at) because CdG seems to need Munro to play for his bowling option, and Munro's batting numbers in ODI are just not stacking up by themselves (he is a useful package as a bowling option too though).

NZ is looking good for numbers from 8 down, with Santner, Boult, Milne, Southee, Henry, Sodhi in the mix. And Guppie, Taylor, KW being the top order rocks with Latham+ looking fairly stable, that leaves 3 positions in the team, an opening berth, a middle order bat berth, and an allrounder berth; where the options are:

CdG, Nicholls, Munro, Anderson, Astle, Chapman, Bruce, Worker and whoever else like smokeys in the form of Mitchell. Which 3 would you pick? Right now it seems to be that the Colins are a package deal to get through 10 overs together.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

North Group (N), Vitality Blast at Nottingham, Jul 17 2018 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

Latham with a blinder.

 

[Bahnz]

Lockheed Martin Ferguson also going well so far. Any speed readings on Milne this season? Would be good to know if he's found that yard of pace that he'd misplaced last year.