*Official* India Tour of England 2018

[Shri]

Unfortunately he'll have a good look at him over the next few games though.

Don't play him again until the tests. Who cares about ODIs that aren't WC games anyway?

 

[Shri]

Yadav and Chahal are going to be a feature during the entire LO leg. I doubt England batsmen could do much against them, even on roads. India will have a serious edge in tests too if they play Kuldeep. It should be a no-brainer by now imo. Ashwin simply doesn't deserve a test spot ahead of Kuldeep in overseas conditions.

Ashwin should play along with Kuldeep. His reputation is starting to precede him and he did well enough in SA in the last series in the chances he got give or take one bad innings.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If Ashwin plays it should be basically as an all-rounder. Doesn't warrant a place outside of Asia as a bowler.

 

[garylyon]

If Ashwin plays it should be basically as an all-rounder. Doesn't warrant a place outside of Asia as a bowler.

Agree. But I don't think India would want to play two spinners; that would effectively mean getting rid of Pandya or one pacer like Umesh. I don't imagine India dropping Pandya in any test even if he performs poorly. India would also quite definitely need at least three good seamers (Pandya is not a good seamer) in most tests and Kuldeep should be an obvious pick alongside them. Besides I have serious concerns about Ashwin's run scoring abilities in England. His feet and head go nowhere and also he should get used to leaving the ball more often. He did play one decent innings in SA though so he may not be that bad. But as I said the problem with him playing is you'd have to effectively play with one seamer less, and Ashwin simply wouldn't be worth it imo, with bat or ball.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Agree. However I have serious concerns about his run scoring abilities in England. His feet and head go nowhere and also he should get used to leaving the ball more often. He did play one decent innings in SA though so he may not be that bad. I don't think India would want to play two specialist spinners, though. They would need at least three good seamers in most tests and Kuldeep should be an obvious pick. so if Ashwin comes off with those runs down the order I guess they could play him too.

India can have 3 quicks and 2 spinners with Ashwin/Hardik playing at 7/8. But yeah not sure 2 spinners is warranted, depending on the wickets they get. While England aren't exactly perennial pitch doctorers on the level of a Sri Lanka, they have been known to influence conditions to their benefit quite often.

This time though I think India are prepared regardless of the conditions. Give them a green top and if anything it just brings their seamers into the game. They showed in South Africa they can be competitive in seaming conditions (and SA are a much better side than England).

 

[garylyon]

India can have 3 quicks and 2 spinners with Ashwin/Hardik playing at 7/8. But yeah not sure 2 spinners is warranted, depending on the wickets they get. While England aren't exactly perennial pitch doctorers on the level of a Sri Lanka, they have been known to influence conditions to their benefit quite often.

This time though I think India are prepared regardless of the conditions. Give them a green top and if anything it just brings their seamers into the game. They showed in South Africa they can be competitive in seaming conditions (and SA are a much better side than England).

Not sure about effectiveness of Pandya as a test seamer. Barely count him as an all-rounder tbh after his bland and uneventful spells in SA, where he bowled less than 20 overs per match taking 3 wickets in 6 innings at 54 in seam friendly conditions. Every other seam bowler in the series averaged less than 26.

 

[vcs]

Hardik was decent yesterday. Bhuvi had a bad day (I think he's been very mediocre of late in limited overs in general), I thought everyone else did a pretty good job.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Not sure about effectiveness of Pandya as a test seamer. Barely count him as an all-rounder tbh after his bland and uneventful spells in SA, where he bowled less than 20 overs per match taking 3 wickets in 6 innings at 54 in seam friendly conditions. Every other seam bowler in the series averaged less than 26.

Hmm ok but you can't drop a guy named Hardik there's just too much meme potential

 

[garylyon]

Bhuvi only actually had a brief phase for a couple of seasons in '16 and '17 where he was any formidable as an LO pacer. I think he struggled in the beginning of his career but then put on some pace and seemed like a wholly different deal. Lately he's started to struggle again but now more so because of lack of control than pace. He had some injury in IPL but I think he was quite poor in SA series before that. Overall I think he is just okay and has won India some matches despite his miserable record in ODIs (90 wkts from 86 matches at 38). Really look forward to how he'll do in tests.

 

[harsh.ag]

Bhuvi should be rested for the ODIs at least. India need him to last all 5 tests.

Agree that Ashwin replacing Pandya as the all rounder isn't a bad call if it gets Kuldeep in. However, it is England and do India really need 2 spinners?

The safest strategy as of now is to pick Ashwin and Pandya in the first test and take it from there. Pandya has a knack of scoring difficult runs which Ashwin does not match, although he'll probably be found wanting with his technique.

 

[Shri]

Bhuvi should be rested for the ODIs at least. India need him to last all 5 tests.

Agree that Ashwin replacing Pandya as the all rounder isn't a bad call if it gets Kuldeep in. However, it is England and do India really need 2 spinners?

The safest strategy as of now is to pick Ashwin and Pandya in the first test and take it from there. Pandya has a knack of scoring difficult runs which Ashwin does not match, although he'll probably be found wanting with his technique.

Its late summer. Might be enough turn available to justify two spinners.

 

[R!TTER]

Bhuvi should be rested for the ODIs at least. India need him to last all 5 tests.

Agree that Ashwin replacing Pandya as the all rounder isn't a bad call if it gets Kuldeep in. However, it is England and do India really need 2 spinners?

The safest strategy as of now is to pick Ashwin and Pandya in the first test and take it from there. Pandya has a knack of scoring difficult runs which Ashwin does not match, although he'll probably be found wanting with his technique.

That won't win us any games & if we aren't looking to win games, with more attacking bowling options, then we're gonna lose the test series pretty early.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Step 1: Don't pick 5 specialist quicks because it's ****ing idiotic

 

[R!TTER]

Step 1: Don't pick 5 specialist quicks because it's ****ing idiotic

I'll take Marshall, Ambrose, Holding, Walsh, Garner every time on the flat pancakes we see these days. Although over rates would be abysmal.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'll take Marshall, Ambrose, Holding, Walsh, Garner every time on the flat pancakes we see these days. Although over rates would be abysmal.

Fair enough, was talking more specifically for this Indian team, and the sort of wickets like the greentops from SA

 

[trundler]

I don't think any team before or since has been lucky enough to have 5 ATG fast bowlers. That's just something which has happened once in 141 years.

 

[trundler]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves with talk of 5 quicks. This is India's only competent pace attack in the last 84 years or so

 

[R!TTER]

Fair enough, was talking more specifically for this Indian team, and the sort of wickets like the greentops from SA

That was a big mistake by Kohli, he also picked his favorite Sharma for the first 2 tests over Rahane. Another totally avoidable, unforced error.

I don't think any team before or since has been lucky enough to have 5 ATG fast bowlers. That's just something which has happened once in 141 years.

If that team played today then I'm sure Clive would've played 5 quicks on many of the dead as a dodo tracks that we see today, even in tests.

 

[harsh.ag]

Fair enough, was talking more specifically for this Indian team, and the sort of wickets like the greentops from SA

No one's talking about 5 quicks though. In fact, the debate was about 1 spinner or 2 spinners.

 

[garylyon]

I think at this point the ideal combination for India would be three pacers (Bhuvi, Ishant, Yadav) + one spinner (Kuldeep > Ashwin) + whatever the **** Hardik is. They could do with two spinners if the track is slower or spin friendly and get rid of one pacer in that case (preferably Ishant).