Cricinfo Best Test 11 from last 25 years

[TheJediBrah]

I think the opposite though. Particularly in ODIs, Shakib thrives on being part of a weak team. It suits him perfectly, especially if we're just talking about stats. Low economy rate? Probably because you can just sit on him and score off the other bowlers.

I'm more interested in which Olympic medal winning Australia team gymnastics members you do respect seriously? Has there ever been one? Google is failing me if so.

Your obsession with Australian sport is getting out of hand

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I think the opposite though. Particularly in ODIs, Shakib thrives on being part of a weak team. It suits him perfectly, especially if we're just talking about stats. Low economy rate? Probably because you can just sit on him and score off the other bowlers.



Your obsession with Australian sport is getting out of hand

All cricketers from any nation prefer to be down hill skiiers for their averages. Noone wants to climb uphill. Statistically speaking that is.

As for the rest of your post, take a long hard look in the mirror. I may not like AFL, but there's nothing out of hand me watching England beat Straya in ODI.

I watch the Back Page Live - because it is good, hardly an obsession - I don't even know the AFL website URL.

 

[Jack1]

Thing with Shakib, to me, is that he has one of those skillsets that looks much better when in a stronger team.

As a tight but un-threatening finger spinner he benefits by having bowlers who can take wickets at the other end, or atleast build pressure so he can get batsmen out when they're on the attack. Without support he just gets milked around and ends up with 0/48 kinda figures.

As a flamboyant strokemaker without a great big-hitting game, he works much better in a middle order when he has a top order who can set a platform and a lower order than can finish. Enables him to be carefree and aggressive in the middle overs, which is where he really shines tbh. Not in rebuilding after a top order collapse, or attempting to pick up the pace in the last 10 overs.

He's got a good skillset - I think his Test performances and occasional cameos in ODIs, plus his IPL performances, is evidence that he does have the skills to be considered a world-class player. But I think he suffers from not having a team around him that enables him to play the role that fits him best - and this is reflected in his stats. He's much better when playing at home or against lesser nations - situations where the rest of the team performs better, thus letting him play the role that fits him best. But understandably that comes off as minnow bashing and such.

The inherent struggles of trying to analyse individual performances within the context of a team sport I suppose.

Not really much to add to that

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Not really much to add to that

Mick Lewis and Andrew Tye would kill for 0/48 right now. Think outside the box.

 

[Cow]

If this Shakib had any ambition be to considered a great cricketer he would have attempted to play for either India or Pakistan years ago (ala Morgan with Eng).

It appears he is resigned to being the medium fish in the crappy pond.

 

[cnerd123]

I think the opposite though. Particularly in ODIs, Shakib thrives on being part of a weak team. It suits him perfectly, especially if we're just talking about stats. Low economy rate? Probably because you can just sit on him and score off the other bowlers.

In that case shouldnt his figures remain consistent across opposition? Like, if he's a sinking ship specialist - escapes with better figures when his team is being smashed, scores runs only when no one else is able to survive at the crease - then that wouldn't line up with how thoroughly he dominates in home ODIs or against weaker teams.

There are ways to look into his stats to see whether my theory holds up or not; if I have the time I'll break it down and see.

 

[trundler]

If this Shakib had any ambition be to considered a great cricketer he would have attempted to play for either India or Pakistan years ago (ala Morgan with Eng).

It appears he is resigned to being the medium fish in the crappy pond.

Oh mate, no Bangladeshi player is ever going to play for Pakistan in hopes of a better career!

 

[Mr Miyagi]

In that case shouldnt his figures remain consistent across opposition? Like, if he's a sinking ship specialist - escapes with better figures when his team is being smashed, scores runs only when no one else is able to survive at the crease - then that wouldn't line up with how thoroughly he dominates in home ODIs or against weaker teams.

There are ways to look into his stats to see whether my theory holds up or not; if I have the time I'll break it down and see.

I'll take wicket keepers for India post 2007 or skaters on Gambhir's coat tails in 2011 WC final after Yuvraj got them there for $10.00

 

[Bolo]

Shakib has no business in an ATG ODI side. He's a combination of home track bully and minnow basher. Played nearly a quarter of his matches against Zimbabwe in their worst period. His away averages excluding Zim are 26 bat and 40 ball,and he's played a disproportionate amount of cricket against other weak teams as well.

He's a bit like a Kallis-lite in that he adds a lot of value to a weak team, but would potentially be a SR liability with the bat and is some distance below specialist quality bowling pick. Not so extreme on the batting SR, because while his era adjusted SR is almost as bad as Kallis, his match performance SR is a lot better (had time to build batting recoveries due to collapses a lot), but still a lesser player. See 1st paragraph.

 

[vcs]

TJB showing remarkable patience dealing with Miyagi here..


unlike the typical Aussie batsman when confronted with swing or spin, but I digress.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Test 11 since 1990

Sehwag
Hayden
Ponting / Sanga
Sachin
Lara
Kallis
Gilly
Akram
Murali
Steyn
Donald / Mcgrath



Odi 11 since 1990

Sachin
Lara
Kohli
Abdv
Beven
Dhoni
Klusner
Pollock
Akram
Saqlain
Donald

Alltime test 11

Gavaskar
Hutton / Hobbs
Bradman
Sachin
Lara
Sobers
Gilly
Procter
Akram
Marshall / Hadlee
Murali

Odi alltime 11

Sachin
Lara
Viv
Kohli
Abdv
Dhoni
Kapil
Hadlee
Akram
Saqlain
Garner


Hadlee vs Mcgrath
Hadlee slightly better with ball and vastly superior with bat IMO

Even if you think Mcgrath 100 and Hadlee 99 with ball its better to go with Hadlee even if he bats at 11. The difference is very negligible with ball, and number 11 can be Man of Destiny sometimes.

 

[Red]

McGrath can be Man of Destiny sometimes.

 

[bagapath]

Alternate ODI xi

Jayasurya
Amla
Ponting *
Hussey
Symonds
Butler +
Klusener
S. Pollock
Saqlain
Waqar
Donald

 

[Bolo]

Alternate ODI xi

Jayasurya
Amla
Ponting *
Hussey
Symonds
Butler +
Klusener
S. Pollock
Saqlain
Waqar
Donald

I don't think Sanath makes this team as a pure bat, and with 2* 5th bowlers I don't think he's needed as an allrounder. I'd probably play Mark Waugh.

Ambrose ahead of either Waqar or Donald for mine, but it's marginal.

Not much difference in quality between this side and the 1st team. Better balance here, but the top bats there are a notch above.

 

[bagapath]

love mark waugh. but would still rate saeed anwar ahead of him.

anyways, sanath was probably the most explosive ODI opener ever; good enough to make this team as a batsman alone;
and most certainly will be used as the sixth bowler to ease the burden on klusener.

 

[CricAddict]

love mark waugh. but would still rate saeed anwar ahead of him.

anyways, sanath was probably the most explosive ODI opener ever; good enough to make this team as a batsman alone;
and most certainly will be used as the sixth bowler to ease the burden on klusener.

I observe here that Sanath is rated highly by a lot of Indians including me and quite underrated by the others. We still have memories of him thrashing us every match. But did he perform poorly outside?

Just like Viv and Gilchrist, Sanath was a pioneer too. For that alone, I will give him a slot.

 

[Daemon]

Jayasuriya hit a six at the Padang which landed on the doorstep of the Supreme Court. Google maps puts that at about 130-140m. Pretty sick.

He was a dick though. Came here after retirement to play in a T20 tournament and swore at a 15yo kid who dropped a catch, demanded ice baths and refused to play when one wasn't provided, zero interaction with fans, didn't do any interviews etc. Hate him.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Jayasuriya is overrated af IMO. Solid all-rounder in Asian conditions, but I scoff at him making an ATG team, or even a World XI team of his time as a specialist batsman.

List of ODI opening batsme better than Jayasuriya in his time: Saeed Anwar, Mark Waugh, Adam Gilchrist, Matthew Hayden, Sehwag, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Trescothick, Nick Knight, Gibbs

 

[Borges]

Jayasuriya is terribly underrated as a limited overs player. He is more than just an opener; he provides an excellent sixth bowling option.
I'd have him over many of the people in the above list.

 

[cnerd123]

Jayasuriya is overrated af IMO. Solid all-rounder in Asian conditions, but I scoff at him making an ATG team, or even a World XI team of his time as a specialist batsman.

List of ODI opening batsme better than Jayasuriya in his time: Saeed Anwar, Mark Waugh, Adam Gilchrist, Matthew Hayden, Sehwag, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Trescothick, Nick Knight, Gibbs

None of them have 323 ODI wickets tho. I don't think they even have that many if combined

Jayasuriya's career:

in Africa: 56 innings, 1581 runs, average 29.27, SR 87.54, 2 hundreds and 9 fifties
in Americas: 16 innings, 606 runs, average 40.40, SR 103.58, 2 hundreds and 2 fifties
in Asia: 268 innings, 8448 runs, average 33.25, SR 90.42, 15 hundreds and 49 fifties
in Europe: 23 innings, 849 runs, average 36.91, SR 101.92, 0 hundreds and 1 fifties
in Oceania: 70 innings, 1946 runs, average 28.20, SR 90.17, 8 hundreds and 8 fifties