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Cricinfo Best Test 11 from last 25 years

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Don't recall mine -

but it was probably like

1 Tendulkar 7
2 Amla
3 Kohli (yes - he owns this spot now)
4 ABdV
5 Watson 6
6 Buttler +
7 Flintoff 3
8 Kluesner 5
9 Pollock 1
10 Akram 2
11 Murali 4

Symonds very unlucky for Watto and Mark Waugh unlucky - the era counted against him and the all-rounders deep. Flintoff for Cairns is a close call too.

I think I prefer John1990's aggression team over the cricinfo XI.

On the bright side, the cricinfo XI omitted Bevan.
Your side would be beaten by

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Ponting
Kohli
ABDV
Bevan
Kluesener/Symonds (pitch dependent)
Pollock
Warne
Wasim
McGrath

This side has a mix of everything it needs to win in all conditions everywhere. Watson at 6 was nowhere near as good as Watson opening. Your side has a decent fast bowling attack but lacks a second spinner of any note. ABDV likes to bat one lower. Your side is also missing the greatest ODI fast bowler of the era and the greatest middle order ODI bat/finisher of all time.

Buttler is a horrible pick for your middle order when you have Dhoni, Bevan and Hussey to pick from. The thing I find funniest though is that in the time period, 1993-2018, there have been 6 world cups. 4 of those world cups have been won by Australia and yet your team has one Australian in it and he was not a key performer in those world cup wins. How on Earth did Australia win so many games if they only have one player who is worthy of an XI in those years?
 

trundler

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Your side would be beaten by

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Ponting
Kohli
ABDV
Bevan
Kluesener/Symonds (pitch dependent)
Pollock
Warne
Wasim
McGrath

This side has a mix of everything it needs to win in all conditions everywhere. Watson at 6 was nowhere near as good as Watson opening. Your side has a decent fast bowling attack but lacks a second spinner of any note. ABDV likes to bat one lower. Your side is also missing the greatest ODI fast bowler of the era and the greatest middle order ODI bat/finisher of all time.

Buttler is a horrible pick for your middle order when you have Dhoni, Bevan and Hussey to pick from. The thing I find funniest though is that in the time period, 1993-2018, there have been 6 world cups. 4 of those world cups have been won by Australia and yet your team has one Australian in it and he was not a key performer in those world cup wins. How on Earth did Australia win so many games if they only have one player who is worthy of an XI in those years?
It's Miyagi, what do you expect? :laugh:
Flintoff down the order is a bad choice too since he isn't suited to the pinch hitting finisher role, Buttler is unproven and Watson is terribly out of place. We have the same side except for Bevan out for Hussey. Having all rounders who are decent at 2 things helps if you rate your team by adding their attribute rating like in a cricket game but not in real life. This team's going to have more middle-order collapses than Pakistan instead of the number 8 coming in at 6/300 to hit a few sixes.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Your side would be beaten by

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Ponting
Kohli
ABDV
Bevan
Kluesener/Symonds (pitch dependent)
Pollock
Warne
Wasim
McGrath

This side has a mix of everything it needs to win in all conditions everywhere. Watson at 6 was nowhere near as good as Watson opening. Your side has a decent fast bowling attack but lacks a second spinner of any note. ABDV likes to bat one lower. Your side is also missing the greatest ODI fast bowler of the era and the greatest middle order ODI bat/finisher of all time.

Buttler is a horrible pick for your middle order when you have Dhoni, Bevan and Hussey to pick from. The thing I find funniest though is that in the time period, 1993-2018, there have been 6 world cups. 4 of those world cups have been won by Australia and yet your team has one Australian in it and he was not a key performer in those world cup wins. How on Earth did Australia win so many games if they only have one player who is worthy of an XI in those years?
Re Australia: Less weak links than the rest of the teams, more players in the 2nd and third team than opposition. Gilly, Hayden, Mark Waugh, Martyn, McGrath, Warne, Hussey, Ponting, Clarke, Hogg, Lee, Starc, S Waugh, there was a constant supply of above very good players for Australia.

Re Buttler: I'm starting to like his inclusion more and more.

Re Watto: he survived a Wahab Riaz blitz in the last world cup didn't he? I could have gone with Symonds here, but I just felt Watto's bowling gave it to him.

Re ABdV he has batted 125 times at 4, and just 42 at 5 (besides which if anything ABdV is flexible to batting order on how many overs are left at the fall of a wicket, not a batting position as such)

Re Second spinner - Agreed, but Jayasuriya was not going to usurp Tendulkar or Amla, and Symonds lost out to Watto, but Tendulkar's record as a bowler isn't bad compared to Symonds in all seriousness, and he is the 7th option. Tendulkar has 2 5 wicket bags and 154 wickets.

Re Trundler and Flintoff - Flintoff can bat 5 and Watson 7 if you prefer.

1 Amla
2 Tendulkar 7
3 Kohli
4 ABdV
5 Flintoff 3
6 Buttler +
7 Watson 6
8 Klesuner 4
9 Pollock 1
10 Akram 2
11 Murali 5

It is remarkable how upset people are with me including Buttler. It is like I have commited a treason, or a deeply religious insult to them. He went to Australia and smashed them, he has taken on a very strong NZ side at home and away many times since the 2015 WC and smashed them, he has smashed SA in SA, he has smashed Pakistan in UAE, his one significant career hole appears to be India, but anyone who watched or followed the IPL this year will tell you that's more likely to be an anomaly thus far (but maybe India has his number, we get to find out this summer don't we?) The guy has been going great and is a core part of an English ODI cricket revival. He bring SR game to its zenith where his not out percentage is only 20% so he will never likely have the average to compete with more established cricketers. I prefer his style of play in a team that bats deep.

He has played over 100 games now, has risen further under Morgan and himself with just scintillating results and is clearly a very talented cricketer. There is no reason to be offended.
 
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Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Tendulkar
Watson 5
Ponting
Kohli
DeVilliers
Symonds 5
Dhoni +
Pollock 3
Wasim 2
Murali 4
McGrath 1


Others I'd considered: Klusener, Flintoff, Hussey, Lara, Donald, Gilly

Biggest choice was between Gilly and Dhoni. Overall Gilly is my preference but I think Dhoni balances the side better with Watson opening.
 
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TheJediBrah

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Your side would be beaten by

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Ponting
Kohli
ABDV
Bevan
Kluesener/Symonds (pitch dependent)
Pollock
Warne
Wasim
McGrath

This side has a mix of everything it needs to win in all conditions everywhere. Watson at 6 was nowhere near as good as Watson opening. Your side has a decent fast bowling attack but lacks a second spinner of any note. ABDV likes to bat one lower. Your side is also missing the greatest ODI fast bowler of the era and the greatest middle order ODI bat/finisher of all time.

Buttler is a horrible pick for your middle order when you have Dhoni, Bevan and Hussey to pick from. The thing I find funniest though is that in the time period, 1993-2018, there have been 6 world cups. 4 of those world cups have been won by Australia and yet your team has one Australian in it and he was not a key performer in those world cup wins. How on Earth did Australia win so many games if they only have one player who is worthy of an XI in those years?
Miyagi should be given the credit he deserves. Trying to justify his ATG sides while fitting them into his "minimal Australians" policy can't be easy.
 

Daemon

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I'm actually fine with the Buttler selection, it's Watson and Flintoff batting out of position that I dislike. Watson lower down the order just isn't ATG material and Flintoff isn't a lower order biffer either.

Flintoff going to 5 could solve that, but then there were tons of far superior number 5s you can pick from (I understand Miyagi doesn't want to pick those guys because he wants to bat deep). I don't like the idea of Flintoff strolling out at 3 down in an ATG team.

Watson at 7 like Miyagi suggested does not work at all. He's not a good 7 and his bowling isn't good enough to justify all those games where he won't be needed to bat.
 
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Mr Miyagi

Banned
I'm actually fine with the Buttler selection, it's Watson and Flintoff batting out of position that I dislike. Watson lower down the order just isn't ATG material and Flintoff isn't a lower order biffer either.

Flintoff going to 5 could solve that, but then there were tons of far superior number 5s you can pick from (I understand Miyagi doesn't want to pick those guys because he wants to bat deep). I don't like the idea of Flintoff strolling out at 3 down in an ATG team.
Flintoff bowls 3. He is batting 5. Kohli is batting 3.

Watson at 7 like Miyagi suggested does not work at all. He's not a good 7 and his bowling isn't good enough to justify all those games where he won't be needed to bat.
I think you're conflating Watson the T20 player with Watson the ODI player, who has scored many a run at 5 and 7 including some vital knocks.

And Watson's bowling was very versatile and handy in his day, far from the t20 trundler he has become in retirement (which is still not the worst).

Now if I had tried to squeeze Shakib in at 6 or 7, I'd appreciate your gripe, but Watson - he's fine. He was batting middle in 2007 WC and 2015 WC. He doesn't have to open to have value in odi. He is versatile and as useful to have as scotch tape or vice grips.

Besides if he opens, he might use up Kohli's or AbDV's review and thats not an option.
 
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TheJediBrah

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I'm actually fine with the Buttler selection, it's Watson and Flintoff batting out of position that I dislike. Watson lower down the order just isn't ATG material and Flintoff isn't a lower order biffer either.

Flintoff going to 5 could solve that, but then there were tons of far superior number 5s you can pick from (I understand Miyagi doesn't want to pick those guys because he wants to bat deep). I don't like the idea of Flintoff strolling out at 3 down in an ATG team.

Watson at 7 like Miyagi suggested does not work at all. He's not a good 7 and his bowling isn't good enough to justify all those games where he won't be needed to bat.
Disagree. He just never did it except at the very start of his career. I see where you're coming from, with his style of play and seeming lack of experience/ability in working the gaps and quick running etc. but he'd still be a great ODI no.7 IMO.

McCullum
Tendulkar
Kohli
AB
Root
Buttler
Flintoff
Akram
Amir
Malinga
Murali
This side would struggle to beat even the Aus World Cup sides from 2003 or 07
 

Daemon

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Disagree. He just never did it except at the very start of his career. I see where you're coming from, with his style of play and seeming lack of experience/ability in working the gaps and quick running etc. but he'd still be a great ODI no.7 IMO.
He might, but he's not done it enough before so it's a bit odd sticking him there in an ATG XI.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
I said 3 down
My bad. You have my apologies.

But if it makes you feel better, I am all for flexible batting line ups. I think the game should determine the batting order, not something else.

But the top 3 are set in stone. Amla, Tendulkar and Kohli. After them all my players are fairly used to playing all over the order anyway. Watson is promotable if things start bad. Kleusner and Buttler are promotable if this go well.
 
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bagapath

International Captain
Leftie all time ODI XI

Gilchrist +
Jayasurya
Lara
Hussey
Bevan
Lloyd *
Shakib
Akram
Johnson
Vaas
Staarc

Reserves:
Yuvaraj
Hayden
Sangakara
 

bagapath

International Captain
To compete with the rightie XI

Tendulkar
Amla
Ponting
Kohli
ABDV
Dhoni *+
Imran
S.Pollock
Warne
Garner
McGrath

Reserves:
Flintoff
Waqar
Donald
 
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stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Bat Deep(tm) XI of the last 25 years

Tendulkar (6)
Watson (5)
Ponting (c)
Kohli
ABDV
Bevan (7)
Dhoni+
Symonds (4)
Klusener (2)
Wasim (1)
Warne (3)

You won't see many stronger batting lineups than that. You'll see plenty of better bowling lineups though. I genuinely believe that this team would lose most games against my previous XI, simply because their bowling lacks the firepower.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Bat Deep(tm) XI of the last 25 years

Tendulkar (6)
Watson (5)
Ponting (c)
Kohli
ABDV
Bevan (7)
Dhoni+
Symonds (4)
Klusener (2)
Wasim (1)
Warne (3)

You won't see many stronger batting lineups than that. You'll see plenty of better bowling lineups though. I genuinely believe that this team would lose most games against my previous XI, simply because their bowling lacks the firepower.
Did you mean Bat Deep tm or Take it Deep tm?

Kluesner at 9 is batting depth, but the seam attack leaves a few questions.
 
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Daemon

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Bat Deep

Tendulkar
Watson
Ponting
Kohli
AB
Dhoni
Klusener
Dasgupta
Starc
Wasim
Warne
 

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