***Official*** Australia in England 2018

[Black_Warrior]

This England team could be the greatest ODI team of all-time. Statistically they already are. All that's missing is the big title. The comparisons with The Golden State Warriors are unmistakable.

That would explain why they won the last major ODI tournament so easily

 

[Mr Miyagi]

England are rightly the number one ranked side in ODI cricket at the moment but their style of play is not suited to win tournaments.

Anything can happen in finals. A Kapil Dev catch, a silly reverse sweep, an Akram batting spree wtih Inzi going back to back, an Aravinda century, heck even an Fakhar Zaman century in the champs trophy last year. There is no guarantee that the best or even most inform team will win a tournament, but trying to win as many games as possible gives a team the best chance to. I typically favour the better teams chances than the weaker for this very reason.

You can't write off the country that has won 4 out of the last 5 tournaments.

I am not writing off Australia entirely, but it has nothing to do with Steve Waugh, SK Warne, Tom Moody or whoever else played in the 1999 final. In the last World Cup, Australia had Haddin at 8, Maxwell, Watson and Faulkner at 5, 6, and 7. This was combined with Johnson at 9, with Starc and Haze. This was a very balanced team that had depth. Bailey could sub Smith and Clarke, MM Marsh for Watson, Cummins for Johnson, Haze and Starc.

Australia looked a lot better and more like winning going into past world cups than they do this one. Of course they won 1987 from next to nowhere, however.

Nor can anyone think England is a sure bet this far out.

Definitely not, but they're much better chances than they have been in the past. They're playing winning cricket, and winning ODI series that very few teams win.

 

[quincywagstaff]

Anything’s possible but I can’t see Australia winning the World Cup. If it was at home maybe they could cover the array of issues they have atm but in English conditions, almost zero chance.

Post the 2015 WC, Australia rested on its laurels as a side and relied on the brilliance that was still in the lineup to win matches (especially at home) without any real plan on what sort of team and style they wanted for the 2019 event.

I reckon the home ODI series loss against England was the wake-up call they needed and they were going to focus more heavily on a plan and certain players but the Warner/Smith suspensions threw all that out the window. Now, it seems that they’re basically waiting for Warner/Smith to come back and hope they and a fit Starc/Cummins/Hazlewood pace attack will do the trick. But they’ve barely developed any players in this format since 2015 who have become certified regulars (perhaps Stoinis) and I think they’ll fall well short next year.

 

[quincywagstaff]

Stoinis' ODI career to date is quite something; still averages almost 55 with the bat and yet has played in just 2 victories in his 15 matches.

Doubt there's an Oz player who's ever had a worst win/loss record in the opening 15 matches of their ODI career.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Anything’s possible but I can’t see Australia winning the World Cup. If it was at home maybe they could cover the array of issues they have atm but in English conditions, almost zero chance.

Post the 2015 WC, Australia rested on its laurels as a side and relied on the brilliance that was still in the lineup to win matches (especially at home) without any real plan on what sort of team and style they wanted for the 2019 event.

I reckon the home ODI series loss against England was the wake-up call they needed and they were going to focus more heavily on a plan and certain players but the Warner/Smith suspensions threw all that out the window. Now, it seems that they’re basically waiting for Warner/Smith to come back and hope they and a fit Starc/Cummins/Hazlewood pace attack will do the trick. But they’ve barely developed any players in this format since 2015 who have become certified regulars (perhaps Stoinis) and I think they’ll fall well short next year.

Agree entirely with the bold.

And some forum users on share the underline, but to me while it may work and Aus win, it just doesn't seem to be as good as a clear plan.

They did have a semblance of a plan with a big buildup to the Champs trophy was going to be Australia unleashing Patto/Duke, Cummins, Starc and Haze in a awesome foursome, but it just didn't look that effective. Nor did it in Australia in England last year (although Duke had retired, and Tye and J Richardson and more were introduced).

And I think there is too much asked of Maxwell as a batsman, to play him to increase the team strike rate, and then bat narrowly and bemoan when he doesn't score seems very harsh. He was more effective when Faulkner and Haddin were taking turns batting at 8 and there wasn't so much reliance on him to score.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Stoinis' ODI career to date is quite something; still averages almost 55 with the bat and yet has played in just 2 victories in his 15 matches.

Doubt there's an Oz player who's ever had a worst win/loss record in the opening 15 matches of their ODI career.

And still striking at over 100 too. He's been doing well enough, coupled in with useful sub 6 runs an over bowling too.

 

[Cow]

Stoinis is a slightly bulkier Mark Ealham

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Stoinis is a slightly bulkier Mark Ealham

Big call for Stoinis there. Ealham was one of England's best test bowlers in the 1990's.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

 

[Borges]

Ealham was one of England's best test bowlers in the 1990's.

If he was, he would have played more than eight test matches.

 

[morgieb]

Big call for Stoinis there. Ealham was one of England's best test bowlers in the 1990's.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

Yeah, two wickets a game is a sign of a true champion!

 

[Cow]

Yeah, two wickets a game is a sign of a true champion!

Stoinis has 31 wickets in 50 limited over games. Inferior bowler to Ealham.

Better batsmen though.

Greek immigrants have been propping up Australian sport for 20 years. This is especially evident in Australia's sporting, cultural, economic and educational capitol, Melbourne.

 

[Cow]

Shane Watson > Steve Smith (LO)

 

[TheJediBrah]

That's not exactly an outrageous opinion. Shane Watson is an ODI ATG player.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Shane Watson > Steve Smith (LO)

This is funny because its true. And Andrew Symonds > Steve Smith too.

Steve Smith averages 41.84 at 86.35 and 21.55 at 122.44.

You could actually make a thread of the most ordinary cricketers who are greater than Steve Smith at Limited overs. There would be some pretty ordinary cricketers with a good case.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

That's not exactly an outrageous opinion. Shane Watson is an ODI ATG player.

I think that's the intended brilliance of cow's post.

It is actually his finest post that I've come across, and there were some good ones to choose from.

 

[morgieb]

Shane Watson > Steve Smith (LO)

Meh, that's less damning than it sounds. Watson was a bloody good ODI player. And no-one thinks Smith is as good at ODI's as he is Tests (and he's also a pretty ordinary T20 player)

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Cricinfo have been reading and here are the answers:

Australia is now 6th in ODI

Yes this is worse than the when Punter was last captain, - it is a 34 year low.

They have lost 13 of their last 15 ODI matches, and lost series to England, NZ, India and a round robin exit in the Champions Trophy in the process.

Australia slip to 34-year low in ICC ODI rankings - ESPNcricinfo

On the bright side, they just need one win against an England team missing its two best all rounders in Stokes and Woakes (Morgan may return). It is critical to remember than these all-rounders have been replaced by no-rounders in the form of Mark Wood and Alex Hales weakening the England batting and bowling.

Chris Woakes ruled out of Australia ODIs with knee problem - ESPNcricinfo

For anyone who wants to see the rankings with Aus ranked 6th:

https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/team-rankings/odi

 

[Luke Wilson]

Good to see England back to their winning ways after the Scotland ODI!

 

[Cow]

Good to see England back to their winning ways after the Scotland ODI!

Best ODI team of all-time. Could score 400 on any given day.

 

[aussie tragic]

This has got to be the most off-topic thread I've ever seen on CW, painful to read when all I'm trying to do is catch up on the ODI series