*Official* Afghanistan and Bangladesh tour of India 2018

[Xuhaib]

If what you say is all true, why are the spin bowlers are not cashing in on this?

Herath, Lyon, Yasir, they're all over 28 average.

Jadeja is slightly inflated from being at home, but if batsmen have forgotten to play spin, I'd expect more than him alone under 25.

I don't reckon any of the three will average less then mid 30's in another era they are decent bowlers but also have stats padding playing in the current era.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I don't reckon any of the three will average less then mid 30's in another era they are decent bowlers but also have stats padding playing in the current era.

So you're saying that today's batsmen suck against spinners as against yesterdays but that today's spinners also suck as against yesterday?

Is there anything about cricket that is as good today as against yesterday? Or are all players just getting worse?

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

I think the hype around Mujeeb was a bit too early. Theres a bit of mystery about him but he mostly played t20s. Im not sure even he played ODIs. As for Rashid, the hype is justifiable

 

[Mr Miyagi]

India 248/1 after 45.1 - will they get to 300 within 50 overs?

 

[Xuhaib]

So you're saying that today's batsmen suck against spinners as against yesterdays but that today's spinners also suck as against yesterday?

Is there anything about cricket that is as good today as against yesterday? Or are all players just getting worse?

Yes I am saying batting against spin is poor these days which is leading to spinners having better stats then what they would have had in a previous era not calling these spinners as mediocre just feel they are overachieving.

Not saying players are getting better or worse its just one of those phases that a game goes through

 

[garylyon]

Will they get to 500 before stumps?

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Yes I am saying batting against spin is poor these days which is leading to spinners having better stats then what they would have had in a previous era not calling these spinners as mediocre just feel they are overachieving.

Not saying players are getting better or worse its just one of those phases that a game goes through

Well you can't have your cake and eat it too.

If batsmen are worse against spin bowling, and spin bowling is worse than yesterday, for when spin is involved - everything is worse today.

 

[Xuhaib]

Well you can't have your cake and eat it too.

If batsmen are worse against spin bowling, and spin bowling is worse than yesterday, for when spin is involved - everything is worse today.

now we are being silly here I am not saying spin is worse then yesteryears its just spinners are overachieving due to poor batsmanship.

Jadeja averaging less then Warne , Yasir matching Saqi with stats I am just not comfortable with these numbers

 

[vcs]

Good/excellent players of spin these days : Steve Smith, Williamson, Pujara, Kohli, Root, Chandimal

Pretty decent players : Cook, Amla (was great but on the decline now), Dhawan, Vijay, Du Plessis, Shafiq, Azhar Ali, Kusal Mendis, Karunaratne, Taylor, Tamim, Sarfraz

Probably missing a few as well. Seems to be about par for the course.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Jadeja is playing at home more (and still averages more than Murali overall) and is more than arguably inflated given Ashwin is the "lead spinner".

Yasir averages over 29 and is arguably the best spinner around with Herath, Ashwin and Lyon.

Yes Australia is definitely struggling more against spin now than in the past. But I remember Hirwani destroying the WI in their pomp. And noone said he was a great spinner.

I remember Qadir being one of the best of his era, and he is well over 32 average.

 

[vcs]

Ashwin and Jadeja maintain excellent averages because India use them quite judiciously. I mean, we complain about the chopping and changing but the selectors and management do a fairly decent job of switching them out in conditions unlikely to suit them. OTOH, Yasir's average took a battering when he toured Australia/NZ last time and even though he won them a couple of matches in England, he still averaged around 40 for the series.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Good/excellent players of spin these days : Steve Smith, Williamson, Pujara, Kohli, Root, Chandimal

Pretty decent players : Cook, Amla (was great but on the decline now), Dhawan, Vijay, Du Plessis, Shafiq, Azhar Ali, Kusal Mendis, Karunaratne, Taylor, Tamim, Sarfraz

Probably missing a few as well. Seems to be about par for the course.

Faf is a terrible player of spin. Agree with the rest.

 

[Xuhaib]

Good/excellent players of spin these days : Steve Smith, Williamson, Pujara, Kohli, Root, Chandimal

Pretty decent players : Cook, Amla (was great but on the decline now), Dhawan, Vijay, Du Plessis, Shafiq, Azhar Ali, Kusal Mendis, Karunaratne, Taylor, Tamim, Sarfraz

Probably missing a few as well. Seems to be about par for the course.

barring Pujara and Smith rest don't match to elite players of spin from previous years Chandimal barring a few innings here and there is just ok Du Plesis and Azhar Ali are below average.

 

[vcs]

Yeah, I just put him in because he can do a decent job in a blockathon.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

barring Pujara and Smith rest don't match to elite players of spin from previous years Chandimal barring a few innings here and there is just ok Du Plesis and Azhar Ali are below average.

So its both then? Spinners are worse and batsmen playing spin are worse? And the bowlers are sliding more than the batsmen?

 

[Gnske]

Faf is a terrible player of spin. Agree with the rest.

I still remember trying to watch the South African players attempting to cope with just about every pitch of that 2016 India tour, particularly at Nagpur. It was like watching animal porn, you accidentally click on it and it takes a few moments before you realize the depravity of what you are watching.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Ashwin and Jadeja maintain excellent averages because India use them quite judiciously. I mean, we complain about the chopping and changing but the selectors and management do a fairly decent job of switching them out in conditions unlikely to suit them. OTOH, Yasir's average took a battering when he toured Australia/NZ last time and even though he won them a couple of matches in England, he still averaged around 40 for the series.

India has been extremely malleable in selection since the days of Shastri and Probhakar, if not before. Under Kohli - it is losing it a bit as seen in SA tour, some strange selections there.

But I believe in horses for courses as a philosophy. To not is to give a home side you visit an advantage. Just get it right.

 

[vcs]

I still remember trying to watch the South African players attempting to cope with just about every pitch of that 2016 India tour, particularly at Nagpur. It was like watching animal porn, you accidentally click on it and it takes a few moments before you realize the depravity of what you are watching.

Sure, sure...

 

[harsh.ag]

So its both then? Spinners are worse and batsmen playing spin are worse? And the bowlers are sliding more than the batsmen?

Think he's already answered it. Try and resist the instinct to descend into tedious details with someone who is obviously using a subjective framework.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Think he's already answered it. Try and resist the instinct to descend into tedious details with someone who is obviously using a subjective framework.

Sorry you find them tedious, bit I am merely asking him to clarify his framework conclusions, subjective as it may be or not.

But if he answered it for you to your satisfaction, by all means please then you answer it for me and we can move past this.

Were batsmen of spin yesterday better than today for him - yes or no?

And are spinners of yesterday better than today for him - yes or no?

And overall if yes to both the above, who is sliding more to worse depths - batsmen or bowlers?

Feel free to answer him for him seeing it is so clear to you. It isn't to me and I sincerely want clarity on this.