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Graeme Hick V Mark Ramprakash

Who was the better Test Batsman?

  • Total voters
    42
fredfertang

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
***** said:
I don't think English cricket has that large a talent pool to begin with, what with being seen as primarily an elitist sport and the best young athletes choosing a career in Football instead.
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I always thought this but am less sure now than I was.

My other half is a teaching assistant in a local primary school in one of the less privileged areas of our town. One of her duties is to supervise 'the cricketers' during the breaks - there is a high percentage of kids at the school with an Asian background, around 30%

Next question I asked was what percentage of the cricketers are Asian kids - seems it's about 100%. A few of the others occasionally show an interest but apparently when they join in they betray a profound lack of talent that is obvious even to Nat (who barely has a sporting bone in her body)

She did tell me last year that there was an East European lad who started to play - caused a bit of friction because he didn't understand the game and even Nat could see he had no technique but he clearly had an eye for a ball because the other kids could never get him out - sad that he lost interest, but apparently he couldn't understand why he had to keep his arm straight when he was bowling, and the others banished him in the end!
 
Daemon

Daemon

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Hmm, I thought that would have only been a problem in non Test playing countries. Normally when expats and their kids come in, they raise the level of standard such that it becomes incredibly difficult for someone completely new to the sport to pick it up. Didn't think it would be an issue in England.
 
cnerd123

cnerd123

likes this
God damn, If little brown kids are better at cricket than little English kids, then maybe cricket really is in our blood
 
A

AndrewB

International Vice-Captain
fredfertang said:
I always thought this but am less sure now than I was.

My other half is a teaching assistant in a local primary school in one of the less privileged areas of our town. One of her duties is to supervise 'the cricketers' during the breaks - there is a high percentage of kids at the school with an Asian background, around 30%

Next question I asked was what percentage of the cricketers are Asian kids - seems it's about 100%. A few of the others occasionally show an interest but apparently when they join in they betray a profound lack of talent that is obvious even to Nat (who barely has a sporting bone in her body)

She did tell me last year that there was an East European lad who started to play - caused a bit of friction because he didn't understand the game and even Nat could see he had no technique but he clearly had an eye for a ball because the other kids could never get him out - sad that he lost interest, but apparently he couldn't understand why he had to keep his arm straight when he was bowling, and the others banished him in the end!
Click to expand...
How is that evidence against what ***** said? He said that English cricket doesn't have a large talent pool because kids don't play it, and you've just said that at least 70% of the kids in that school don't.
 
fredfertang

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
AndrewB said:
How is that evidence against what ***** said? He said that English cricket doesn't have a large talent pool because kids don't play it, and you've just said that at least 70% of the kids in that school don't.
Click to expand...
The point I was trying to make was that, amongst the Asian diaspora, elitism doesn’t seem to be the issue - perhaps in framing the post I should have focussed rather less on trying to be politically correct
 
Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
fredfertang said:
The point I was trying to make was that, amongst the Asian diaspora, elitism doesn’t seem to be the issue - perhaps in framing the post I should have focussed rather less on trying to be politically correct
Click to expand...

So what you're saying - is that anglo-saxon perceiving cricket as an elitist sport will be less of an issue when sub continental Asians are the majority in England and Wales. :ph34r:

But I agree with your sentiment. Sub Continental - Asians (or West Asians at this growth rate), like Australians, are cricket mad regardless of class.
 
Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
fredfertang said:
I always thought this but am less sure now than I was.

My other half is a teaching assistant in a local primary school in one of the less privileged areas of our town. One of her duties is to supervise 'the cricketers' during the breaks - there is a high percentage of kids at the school with an Asian background, around 30%

Next question I asked was what percentage of the cricketers are Asian kids - seems it's about 100%. A few of the others occasionally show an interest but apparently when they join in they betray a profound lack of talent that is obvious even to Nat (who barely has a sporting bone in her body)

She did tell me last year that there was an East European lad who started to play - caused a bit of friction because he didn't understand the game and even Nat could see he had no technique but he clearly had an eye for a ball because the other kids could never get him out - sad that he lost interest, but apparently he couldn't understand why he had to keep his arm straight when he was bowling, and the others banished him in the end!
Click to expand...


Daemon told me that you pre-exist tv by your entire childhood, why do you still make your wife work? :ph34r:

Why didn't she just stop the Eastern European from bowling? Or was he within the limits but looked awkward like Murali and Darryl Hair was umpiring? :ph34r:

He could have been England's version of Steve Smith :ph34r:
 
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Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
fredfertang said:
The point I was trying to make was that, amongst the Asian diaspora, elitism doesn’t seem to be the issue - perhaps in framing the post I should have focussed rather less on trying to be politically correct
Click to expand...
No I think that you nailed this point, but simply overlooked the white majority in England where elitism is still very much an issue.
 
Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
This thread was fun to read back on guys. Thank you all.

I don't know why Hick and Ramprakash ultimately failed. Both were dropped when they were finally making a turn, but even at that point they had failed beforehand. And despite Henry Niccolls finally making a turn in NZC right now - if someone made a strong claim for NZC - I'd drop him still. But he isn't dominating FC the way Hick and Ramprakash did. Hick smashed it in NZ domestic as well at Bradman-esque levels, so it wasn't just county.

I think Hick may have been a better player for Zimbabwe, as he wouldn't have been dropped so readily, but he chose the financial security of an English county career. And fair enough. Even then he played more than a few good innings at the top level for England. He had and displayed his talent for England. Just totally failed to meet the 405* billing.

Ramprakash for me is the bigger enigma. And I've read a lot on his career. And no one has particularly strong theories in my view due to the way his career developed.

There is one thing that is often said in cricket that is true, pies oft sometimes get wickets. Some guys can just be unlucky when their career is in the balance and get out to balls that they would typically smack for 4.
And while this should be rare among a large sample pool of players where many simply struggle with the faster or more accurate bowling of tests, Ramprakash and even Hick are rare cases which we all acknowledge.

But I agree with the mental aspect being a factor for some in tests being too negative to put the bad ball away for fear of getting out when in the comforts of FC/ODI they would not hesitate. And they oft end up suffocating or costing themselves more runs. I like many more in NZ, put Martin Guptill's test career down in this category. He was just too negative in tests confirmed by his 46 SR when he is a gifted striker of the ball. Even if his sr was 60 and increased by a third, his average would possibly push 40 with the field relaxed and the bowler more defensive, and his place wouldn't have been in question. I don't doubt his talent, I just think he had the wrong mindset in test cricket to get the best out of his talent. And even Mark Richardson - possibly the most negative thinking and dour batsman since Boycott - shares this view.

Nick Knight for England is another enigma to join the list.
 
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