*Official* Pro-Wrestling Thread II

[Shri]

I think with DBry back, they might have changed the ending to setup next year's Wrestlemania main event. Daniel Bryan vs Brock Lesnar. But I want to see Styles vs DB though next year. Then Styles vs Bryan vs Ricochet the year after that.

 

[Athlai]

Styles vs. AJ would be gun.

 

[GIMH]

Why is that well done though? That's just meme-level swerving. The finish makes no logical sense in the bounds of the story they were telling. If anything, that's bad, not something to be praised.

It’s not swerving really to have a match that one sided end with the guy who’s been on top with arms aloft. I think in wrestling often the expected thing is conflated with the right thing to do; I rolled my eyes before the match at the prospect of a third successive Mania going out to Reigns being booed out the building after a main event win. All the more so as he kicked out of F5 after F5. But in the end he had no more to give - more logical for me than if he’d suddenly gone superman punch/spear/win

I liked it anyway.

Overall, I thought the mixed tag, the Women’s SD and IC title matches were excellent and worthy of Mania. Both world title matches were good, though AJ V Nakamura clearly underwhelmed. Would have been better earlier on the card for me - maybe even opening.

The rest ranged from reasonable to meh, the US and SD tag titles were pretty weak but weren’t long enough to be a major problem.

Loved the whole Cena-Taker segment and as much as longer time readers of this thread know that I love cena and have clamoured for this match for years, it was probably for the best that it went how it did.

Will rewatch some bits later, stand by my comments that it was a very good Mania, but way bloated and that takes some intensity out of the main events as a viewer. It’s nice that they try and get everyone on there some way but ultimately it’s way too much.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

It’s not swerving really to have a match that one sided end with the guy who’s been on top with arms aloft. I think in wrestling often the expected thing is conflated with the right thing to do; I rolled my eyes before the match at the prospect of a third successive Mania going out to Reigns being booed out the building after a main event win. All the more so as he kicked out of F5 after F5. But in the end he had no more to give - more logical for me than if he’d suddenly gone superman punch/spear/win

But what does it achieve? It legitimately hurts both guys going forward. Brock has absolutely nothing to do now and Roman has been beaten over and over and over and has consistently lost the big ones. Brock won for a gasp and 5 second reaction, now what?

 

[Mike5181]

I was gonna say it's too long but Wrestle Kingdom was a similar length and that didn't seem to drag as much as this. In both cases you're looking at 5 - 5 1/2 hours for the main card. Wrestlemania had two extra matches (11 vs. 9) but New Japan's last two matches were much longer. The pre-show is just an hour rather than two as well I guess, but it's probably just the way the two shows are presented, the commentary, etc. Something sucks the energy out of people a bit faster.

 

[GIMH]

I was gonna say it's too long but Wrestle Kingdom was a similar length and that didn't seem to drag as much as this. In both cases you're looking at 5 - 5 1/2 hours for the main card. Wrestlemania had two extra matches (11 vs. 9) but New Japan's last two matches were much longer. The pre-show is just an hour rather than two as well I guess, but it's probably just the way the two shows are presented, the commentary, etc. Something sucks the energy out of people a bit faster.

I think sitting through the pre show and then getting all those same video packages again before each match hurt it a fair bit tbh. Makes it really drag, especially when the clock says 4.30 am

 

[GIMH]

But what does it achieve? It legitimately hurts both guys going forward. Brock has absolutely nothing to do now and Roman has been beaten over and over and over and has consistently lost the big ones. Brock won for a gasp and 5 second reaction, now what?

I’ve always said with any wrestling booking if your issue with it is ‘what now?’ Then the best bet is to wait and see where they go. I’m not convinced that Brock winning makes a difference to his ‘what now’ question, personally, I guess we had all assumed he was off for a while. Reigns, I dunno, but I’m not sure what good a title run would have done either.

As you know I don’t exactly watch week to week these days so will bow to knowledge of how Reigns has been booked of late. Ideally that last night would earn most wrestlers sympathy - Reigns is probably too far gone for that, but that’s where I’d be looking to take it based on what happened at the show.

 

[Shri]

He's banned from the UFC. WWE knew he wasn't going anywhere soon I guess so a contract extension for another year is very likely.

How good was the Asuka vs Charlotte match? They definitely tried to tell something in the ring and it was excellent.

 

[King Pietersen]

Brock isn't banned. He's served his suspension. All he'd have to do to return to the UFC is re-enter into the USADA testing pool and he could fight in a couple of months.

I reckon he'll vacate the belt on RAW and there'll be some sort of tournament for the belt.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I’ve always said with any wrestling booking if your issue with it is ‘what now?’ Then the best bet is to wait and see where they go. I’m not convinced that Brock winning makes a difference to his ‘what now’ question, personally, I guess we had all assumed he was off for a while. Reigns, I dunno, but I’m not sure what good a title run would have done either.

As you know I don’t exactly watch week to week these days so will bow to knowledge of how Reigns has been booked of late. Ideally that last night would earn most wrestlers sympathy - Reigns is probably too far gone for that, but that’s where I’d be looking to take it based on what happened at the show.

I think what makes it worse is that Brock didn't look in shape at all imo.

 

[Spikey]

I have now read the recaps of WM

why do they do the things they do. Rusev not winning, Bryan being put on a stretcher again when the people just want to see him wrestle, intentionally doing an average AJ/Naka match because Naka's turning after the match so you may as well not go all out yet, Roman Reigns

I mean, the Undertaker squashing John Cena seems to be one of the more logical things to happen. good grief

 

[OverratedSanity]

The first Reigns-Brock WM match was supposed to be rubbish but ended up being one of the best main events ever. Whereas this one had a better build, and should have been way better but turned out pretty rubbish. It's not always the wrestler's fault but if the crowd is that dead for the WM main event you deserve the flak you get... they managed to keep the crowd on the edge of their seats in 31, here no one gave a ****.

 

[Shri]

Lets not ignore the fact that Rollins swung the IC belt over his head after winning. Wag. Seems to have inherited Roman's old contacts though, ugh.

 

[GIMH]

I have now read the recaps of WM

why do they do the things they do. Rusev not winning, Bryan being put on a stretcher again when the people just want to see him wrestle, intentionally doing an average AJ/Naka match because Naka's turning after the match so you may as well not go all out yet, Roman Reigns

I mean, the Undertaker squashing John Cena seems to be one of the more logical things to happen. good grief

So you’ve formed an opinion from a written recap. Classic

The Bryan match was not great but surely it’s not hard to see the logic in wiping him out, having Shane get battered and then Bryan coming in hot? Not exactly a revolutionary tag team booking method

 

[Spikey]

you can do hot tags and comebacks without doing the stupid stretcher trope. literally every other wrestling company in the world does it and WWE used to too. Bryan came back and got stretchered straight away, and then he actually has his match and....gets stretchered off straight away again. This on the back of Brock and Roman and whoever else being stretchered off about 2000 times in the past 3-4 years. People are sick of it, let alone when it leaves Shane McMahon in a 2 on 1 for a few minutes. Seeing how I've now read more than several people point to Bryan being stretchered off as the turning point of the show, I'm comfortable calling it out as a bad, preventable decision

 

[Spikey]

i'm not gonna go into brock/roman and all the other stuff, I just truly hate the stretcher trope

 

[Dan]

In my mind, that's pretty close to best 'Mania ever. But then again, I've never really rated X-7 as highly as most.

I think the biggest thing with WrestleMania is that, much like in the Royal Rumble, you kind of have to put aside logic a bit. Is Reigns kicking out of 5 F-5s ludicrous when everyone has died after one for the past year? Yeah, but it's WrestleMania. It's just different. The blood made me very uncomfortable, but **** it looked brutal.

Where to with Lesnar is a good question, but I think you can tell a fairly simple story and make it work -- he's run through 'everyone' and finally answered the Reigns question, so if you write it as ego catching up with him he might be able to logically drop the belt once he's passed 434. But meh, when it comes to modern WMs the undercard is where it's at anyway.

Charlotte-Asuka gets 5 from me and I have no issues with the streak being broken -- it's not far past the point where it's started to weigh Asuka down and limit options (see: Mixed Match Challenge), and the mixed tag probably gets 4.25 (I was very, very, very sports entertained). Wasn't a huge fan of the Bryan thing, but I kind of get it -- you sell Owens and Zayn as sadistic bastards, and it means that the Shane beatdown isn't completely overshadowed by the bloke standing on the apron the whole time. 3.5, and please let Bryan and Zayn go for half an hour at some point.

AJ-Nakamura was disappointing, sure -- but given the rumours of injury I'm not too upset about it. Given that the completely unexpected betrayal means they're locked into a rubber match (if not more), I'm sure they can put that right. It can have a 3.75 to a low 4. 'Taker squashing Cena was fun and wasn't too outlandish -- Cena's a few beers deep and isn't expecting it to happen. 2.5.

Tag matches, ehh. I think they booked themselves into a corner a bit with Strowman, given that surprise returns at the main card entered the WWE overton window last year (2 stars), and the Smackdown tag match achieved what it needed to. Usos and New Day have fought each other enough and there's not really anyone else on the roster at the moment -- so I'm all for Harper and Rowan, on the condition that this is an excuse to call up AoP to Smackdown for a stupidly entertaining hoss fight (3.25).

Triple threat was good -- four stars minimum -- and I would have been happy with any result. Plus I'm loving what I hope is a slow Miz face turn. Didn't watch the US title and have no real desire to, so let's assume it gets 2.5.

 

[Dan]

But yes, Bryan on a stretcher was dumb. As are Lesnar's shoot elbows. And the entire Strowman-Bar segment (especially The Bar's entrance).

But hey, at least it wasn't a Gimmick Battle Royal.

 

[GIMH]

Doing customary next day rewatch (skipping the in between bits and matches that were dirge)

IC title and SD women’s matches both absolutely stellar.

 

[GIMH]

The mixed tag is one of my favourite ever Mania matches

Rousey was absolutely sensational