Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[Midwinter]

I do understand and empathise with your sentiments; I'm really sorry that what I said was somewhat flippant and certainly harsh.

I've no disagreement at all with the Australian cricket fan who believes that the captain, the vice captain and other members of the national test team must set very high standards.


Part of what I said was because of my frustration at the utterly absurd situation that has arisen. Let me explain:

Everything that I know about cricket tells me that, even in these days of coaches with walkie-talkies, the captain is in absolute command of the team on the field; a gentle 'no' from the captain is all that is required to put an immediate stop to any nonsense.

So here we have the captain, the vice-captain and a rookie doing something that they should not have done; and the captain and the rookie compound their mistake my lying about it. Later, the captain comes before the cameras and cries in a very nice manner; in stark contrast to the vice-captain who did not cry in as effective a manner. The whole world now turns around, cries along with the captain, and concludes that the entire responsibility for this sorry adventure must lie with the vice-captain of the team.


I apologise once again for my earlier comment which must have been hurtful.

Thanks for your response and expanding on your earlier comments.

We share many of the same sentiments about this matter.

 

[S.Kennedy]

1,100 cases here alone v the Anglican Church. We just had a royal commission into it.

I'll concede you it. It seems like solely an Australian thing which is why I had never heard it. There has not been much similar elsewhere in the Anglican Communion, including the Church of England - certainly nothing like the massive scandals which engulfed the Catholic Church from the 1990s onwards.

 

[quincywagstaff]

In response to current selector Mark Waugh downplaying this saga, someone tweeted this interesting observation :

Current 4 selectors took money from bookies, ordered underarm incident, broke South African apartheid ban and got done for racial abuse. I think, whilst everyone makes mistakes and they've earned back respect, those incidents are all arguably worse than the current problem.

It always surprises how little long-term fallout the cricketers who toured South Africa in the 1980s received; I'm not saying they should've been totally ostracized as the Windies rebel tourists were but I reckon it's forgotten too easily.

And similarly Lehmann's racism suspension did remarkably little damage to his reputation in the medium to long term; I reckon with social media and the climate now that would cause a much greater fallout if it occurred today.

And seeing Warne of all people post-match yesterday discuss where Australia's behaviour just reminded one how he made Warner look like a beacon of virtue by comparision. I reckon on some issues Warne was harshly dealt with but he made a lot of errors and mistakes and was allowed to be indulged in self-serving behaviour forever by the cricket establishment because of how good he was.

On a broader level, while Australia has been enormously successful over the past few decades, this culture of looking the other way when players commit serious misdeeds is now coming back to haunt them.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah the SA stuff shits me in particular. Especially riles me when I hear that **** Haysman commentating. Traitorous bastard.

I think the underarm is actually the least offensive of the things listed tbh. It was something I wouldn’t do and was a low act, but was completely within the rules at the time. If Chappell had worn a harlequin cap or been a psychology major from a front line UK Uni there’d be people saying he was a genius

 

[quincywagstaff]

I think the underarm is actually the least offensive of the things listed tbh. It was something I wouldn’t do and was a low act, but was completely within the rules at the time. If Chappell had worn a harlequin cap or been a psychology major from a front line UK Uni there’d be people saying he was a genius

Agree about that. It was weak and spineless but just showed that Greg Chappell was mentally fried as captain and probably should've just continued as a batsman from that point on.

I recall reading some English journos drooling over how Brearley in a County Match put a helmet at silly mid-on or something like that to see whether the batsman would try to get the penalty runs; hard to see them acting the same if an Oz captain did that in an Ashes Test.

 

[quincywagstaff]

Shane Warne talked about a wholescale cleanout in Cricket Australia is required and considering some of the people they employ you can't disagree with them.

For example is their employment as 'Communications Manager' former journo Malcolm Conn. Going by his Twitter activity, one of his main roles seems to be to take incessant potshots at soccer, which eventually blew up in his face with this tweet just a day or so before this saga blew up - needless to say CA has already lost considerably more sponsorship than what Conn was gloating about. Needless to say numerous soccer fans on Twitter took delight in Conn as he become notorious as a basher of soccer.

Why does CA employ a turd like Conn as a PR man who seems to delight in taking down another popular sport in the country? Can they not conceive that some people like both soccer and cricket and you're just alienating those people with this nonsense?

 

[Burgey]

I remember Brearley putting all 10 fielders including the keeper on the boundary in an ODI vs the Windies in the Australian summer of 79/80. Masterful captaincy and well within the rules was the consensus of the Pommy commentators and pundits at the time.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Australia is a nation unable to laugh at itself... when things go wrong there is a monumental over-reaction

I think plenty of people are laughing. Those that over-react are probably mostly fly-by-night cricket 'fans', although plenty of ex-players have also had a but to say I guess.

There are plenty of countries unable to laugh at themselves. But the overreaction here has been ridiculous.

 

[Burgey]

Shane Warne talked about a wholescale cleanout in Cricket Australia is required and considering some of the people they employ you can't disagree with them.

For example is their employment as 'Communications Manager' former journo Malcolm Conn. Going by his Twitter activity, one of his main roles seems to be to take incessant potshots at soccer, which eventually blew up in his face with this tweet just a day or so before this saga blew up - needless to say CA has already lost considerably more sponsorship than what Conn was gloating about. Needless to say numerous soccer fans on Twitter took delight in Conn as he become notorious as a basher of soccer.

Why does CA employ a turd like Conn as a PR man who seems to delight in taking down another popular sport in the country? Can they not conceive that some people like both soccer and cricket and you're just alienating those people with this nonsense?

I'd like to know how Mark Taylor possibly thought it a good idea to go on TV on Sunday morning to talk about the whole issue and defend James Sutherland, while there are still appeals available and likely to be heard. The bloke is a CA board member. It's just beyond belief how stupid it was.

 

[MagicPoopShovel]

In response to current selector Mark Waugh downplaying this saga, someone tweeted this interesting observation :



It always surprises how little long-term fallout the cricketers who toured South Africa in the 1980s received; I'm not saying they should've been totally ostracized as the Windies rebel tourists were but I reckon it's forgotten too easily.

And similarly Lehmann's racism suspension did remarkably little damage to his reputation in the medium to long term; I reckon with social media and the climate now that would cause a much greater fallout if it occurred today.

And seeing Warne of all people post-match yesterday discuss where Australia's behaviour just reminded one how he made Warner look like a beacon of virtue by comparision. I reckon on some issues Warne was harshly dealt with but he made a lot of errors and mistakes and was allowed to be indulged in self-serving behaviour forever by the cricket establishment because of how good he was.

On a broader level, while Australia has been enormously successful over the past few decades, this culture of looking the other way when players commit serious misdeeds is now coming back to haunt them.

With regards to Lehmann's racism incident - (I think you are referring to the Jayasuriya comment)

I was under the impression that his reputation was pretty shot. Certainly in SL (obviously) and within the Asian fan base most people saw him as a turd all the while. My general impression, having read this forum for a bit, is that he had a similar rep here as well.

 

[Burgey]

Smith has issued a statement saying he won’t appeal the suspension.

 

[Shri]

Well this is stupid. Smith:

I would give anything to have this behind me and be back representing my country. But I meant what I said about taking full responsibility as Captain of the team. I won’t be challenging the sanctions. They’ve been imposed by CA to send a strong message and I have accepted them.

https://twitter.com/stevesmith49/status/981407491752853504

Don't make your players preach to kids on the big screens CA.

 

[quincywagstaff]

A tough and admirable decision by Smith; I think in the long-term not challenging this decision will have long-term benefits for his career.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Interesting from Smith - I hope he's not given up on his cricket yet although.

 

[Gnske]

Well this is stupid. Smith:



https://twitter.com/stevesmith49/status/981407491752853504

Don't make your players preach to kids on the big screens CA.

I think this might make a decision to let Smith back earlier on CA's part much easier.

I can't see it not happening.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Chief among the Australian jibes was to remind Markram that he had only scored big runs against less-strong teams - a reference to his two centuries in three Tests against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, and a reminder that 94 against India was not good enough.

De Kock faced far worse. For more than two hours, he was teased about his weight and his appearance. With no runs of substance to his name since July 2016 at Trent Bridge, he said nothing in reply. He usually says nothing anyway. But as the players left the field for tea, David Warner had one more go. He called de Kock a "f****** sook," an Australian slang word for crybaby, and de Kock could take no more. His retort about Warner's wife, Candice, set in motion a chain of events which would go on to define the series.

Reading the above evaporated any sympathy for the Australians, in particular, Warner.

 

[MagicPoopShovel]

Good stuff from Smith there. Have to admire it.

I think it just makes it that little bit easier to come back to a public who will want him back

 

[Adders]

If Chappell had worn a harlequin cap or been a psychology major from a front line UK Uni there’d be people saying he was a genius

Wahhhh....

I recall reading some English journos drooling over how Brearley in a County Match put a helmet at silly mid-on or something like that to see whether the batsman would try to get the penalty runs; hard to see them acting the same if an Oz captain did that in an Ashes Test.

Wahhh...

I remember Brearley putting all 10 fielders including the keeper on the boundary in an ODI vs the Windies in the Australian summer of 79/80. Masterful captaincy and well within the rules was the consensus of the Pommy commentators and pundits at the time.

Wahhh............Delilah.

 

[Zinzan]

Wahhhh....



Wahhh...



Wahhh............Delilah.

Fine 'wahhing' that.

 

[Adders]

These be the same ****s that call you the Kiwahhs and us the whinging Poms and also the very same that reckon you blokes should get over the underarm after all these years. But Douglas Jardine.........

Yeah I reckon Harsh's hypocrisy thread was dead out of line


And the funniest bit is Burgey and Quincy are probably two of the best of em