Darren Lehmann resigns

[S.Kennedy]

No sympathy.

 

[StephenZA]

But you said he is taking no responsibility for his action in this; giving the impression you are speaking about the ball tampering. Understandable really because without that incident we have no incident.

No like everybody else I'm talking about the entire event and fallout... I have said he should resign right from the beginning, because, even if indirectly, he created the atmosphere in which this became a possibility.

 

[the big bambino]

Exactly... but his continued behavior is that of an innocent bystander. He can go get ****ed... and I say this as somebody who has no interest in the general behaviour of the Aussie team.

But thats because it appears he was an innocent bystander ...

Really I'm just amazed that someone who apparently had no involvement is being blamed. He didn't conspire, paint pictures or do anything, it seems. Therefore he isn't responsible for a plot that was hatched behind his back and sanctioned by a captain stupid enough to take advice from an angry vice captain looking to satisfy a vendetta. even if it was one in his own mind.

 

[Spark]

But thats because it appears he was an innocent bystander ...

Really I'm just amazed that someone who apparently had no involvement is being blamed. He didn't conspire, paint pictures or do anything, it seems. Therefore he isn't responsible for a plot that was hatched behind his back and sanctioned by a captain stupid enough to take advice from an angry vice captain looking to satisfy a vendetta. even if it was one in his own mind.

He was certainly responsible for fostering an ill-disciplined team culture over a number of years, of encouraging a siege mentality in the team (his presser the previous night, for example), and arguably failing to protect his players.

 

[the big bambino]

No like everybody else I'm talking about the entire event and fallout... I have said he should resign right from the beginning, because, even if indirectly, he created the atmosphere in which this became a possibility.

No he didn't! Look, I thought he was into this balls deep. Then I saw an interview with Jimmy Maher who said he wouldnt ever be a part of this. Maher's a mate but it seems he's right. He understands Lehmann's character better than anyone here and all I can say is that the investigations vouched for his faith. If Lehmann is as maher says, someone who would never countenance cheating then it can't be said he "created an atmosphere" where it occurred.

 

[Gnske]

But thats because it appears he was an innocent bystander ...

Really I'm just amazed that someone who apparently had no involvement is being blamed. He didn't conspire, paint pictures or do anything, it seems. Therefore he isn't responsible for a plot that was hatched behind his back and sanctioned by a captain stupid enough to take advice from an angry vice captain looking to satisfy a vendetta. even if it was one in his own mind.

The problem is we just got over a week of journos talking about the toxic Australian culture in regards to the line and sledging hypocrisy regarding the de Kock situation. Then this happens and it opens a huge can of worms fresh to be exploited. A leads to B leads to C leads to Darren Lehmann.

 

[Spark]

No he didn't! Look, I thought he was into this balls deep. Then I saw an interview with Jimmy Maher who said he wouldnt ever be a part of this. Maher's a mate but it seems he's right. He understands Lehmann's character better than anyone here and all I can say is that the investigations vouched for his faith. If Lehmann is as maher says, someone who would never countenance cheating then it can't be said he "created an atmosphere" where it occurred.

You don't have to countenance cheating to be responsible for creating an atmosphere in which it occurs though.

 

[StephenZA]

But thats because it appears he was an innocent bystander ...

Really I'm just amazed that someone who apparently had no involvement is being blamed. He didn't conspire, paint pictures or do anything, it seems. Therefore he isn't responsible for a plot that was hatched behind his back and sanctioned by a captain stupid enough to take advice from an angry vice captain looking to satisfy a vendetta. even if it was one in his own mind.

You aren't coach of a team in which this happens, with the vitriol he has spread for the last few years and months, and then be considered an innocent bystander. He facilitated this, even if he did not take part in the direct action. His position was just not tenable and yet it becomes everybody elses fault....

 

[Spark]

Also, we shouldn't ignore the fact that most of our batsmen still can't ****ing bat properly overseas.

 

[the big bambino]

He was certainly responsible for fostering an ill-disciplined team culture over a number of years, of encouraging a siege mentality in the team (his presser the previous night, for example), and arguably failing to protect his players.

even if that was so the behaviour of Australia has been on par with the other major sides, who all appear primadonnas. If anything he has kept his side cleaner as far as ball tampering is concerned than say SA. I just can't see how he should be held responsible for a player's conspiracy. The reason why he couldn't protect his players is that they didn't inform him. And he couldn't speak afterwards because even though he appears innocent it would seem like he was throwing the players under a bus by simply telling the truth.

 

[stephen]

Also, we shouldn't ignore the fact that most of our batsmen still can't ****ing bat properly overseas.

We're going to bring in acclaimed batting coach Justin Langer to take over the full time coaching role stop we'll be ok soon.

 

[Daemon]

Yeah I don't like how it's being completely disregarded that there's a chance Lehmann didn't know.

I mean I think he did, but I won't call him some of the names he's being called because I accept there's a chance he really didn't know.

 

[Spark]

even if that was so the behaviour of Australia has been on par with the other major sides, who all appear primadonnas. If anything he has kept his side cleaner as far as ball tampering is concerned than say SA. I just can't see how he should be held responsible for a player's conspiracy. The reason why he couldn't protect his players is that they didn't inform him. And he couldn't speak afterwards because even though he appears innocent it would seem like he was throwing the players under a bus by simply telling the truth.

He should have said something though. "We're aware, it's not on, we'll find out exactly what happened and tell you at the end of the game" would have been an infinitely better way to approach that post-day presser than what they did. Instead we didn't hear from him for days.

Yeah I don't like how it's being completely disregarded that there's a chance Lehmann didn't know.

I mean I think he did, but I won't call him some of the names he's being called because I accept there's a chance he really didn't know.

Yeah, but that's why I'm strictly keeping my critiques away from that. I wanted him gone anyway.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Good riddance.

 

[Gnske]

Yeah I don't like how it's being completely disregarded that there's a chance Lehmann didn't know.

I mean I think he did, but I won't call him some of the names he's being called because I accept there's a chance he really didn't know.

We can accept that, sure. But down one road you have a coach who condones cheating. And down the road we've taken we have a coach who couldn't get his team in order and who as some might say lost control of it.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

They get a decent bloke like a Langer

 

[the big bambino]

You don't have to countenance cheating to be responsible for creating an atmosphere in which it occurs though.

There is no proof of that. He is apparently innocent. Something that will be factually proven or otherwise. The players have not said anything about him influencing them with his voodoo culture. Neither has the investigation blamed him or found that he was indirectly responsible. Until he resigned it appeared he could keep his job. Nothing in that suggests anything like you are speculating.

You aren't coach of a team in which this happens, with the vitriol he has spread for the last few years and months, and then be considered an innocent bystander. He facilitated this, even if he did not take part in the direct action. His position was just not tenable and yet it becomes everybody elses fault....

He hasn't been fined, banned, sacked or sanctioned. So yes he is innocent. And it was someone else's fault - the player's. You are letting your personal opinion establish a position in your mind that is contradicted by the outcome.

 

[morgieb]

Yeah I don't like how it's being completely disregarded that there's a chance Lehmann didn't know.

I mean I think he did, but I won't call him some of the names he's being called because I accept there's a chance he really didn't know.

I mean I'm not convinced he did know, but even if he didn't he's still culpable in fostering a culture that would encourage something like this. And his actual record isn't that flash either. He had to go, pretty much.

 

[Shri]

All this because Warner sledged a 12 year old wk.

 

[StephenZA]

Yeah I don't like how it's being completely disregarded that there's a chance Lehmann didn't know.


I mean I think he did, but I won't call him some of the names he's being called because I accept there's a chance he really didn't know.

You put this in context of a manager or CEO of a business... and regardless of if you were aware or not of what is going on, 90% of the time you get sacked if your employers coloured out of the lines. And most of the time the reason for this is because they thought they could get away with because that was the culture of the business. Sometimes that is and can be unfair, but leadership often dictates practise.


And it is not even like Lehmann was far removed, he shared a change room with his players.... obviously for whatever reason, condoned or not condoned, they thought they could and should try it. That is a bad environment to be in.

He hasn't been fined, banned, sacked or sanctioned. So yes he is innocent. And it was someone else's fault - the player's. You are letting your personal opinion establish a position in your mind that is contradicted by the outcome.

The outcome is that the 3 players have been banned for a year, by their own association, for a number of reasons I don't agree with. The team environment he created led to that outcome, he was the primary responsible person for that environment.