Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[SteveNZ]

And I'm usually not one to say 'na na na na' but Darren Lehmann saying they need to behave more like New Zealand, after I've spent years saying the Australian way of cricket is BS, was such a sweet symphony. Wonder what Brad Haddin made of that comment, I presume he backs it seeing he's one of Lehmann's assistants.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

Is there any chance of CA changing this later so that they can play the test series at home against India?

I doubt it, if they only miss the Zimbabwe and Bangladesh series CA would get slaughtered for going soft and only keeping them out of tests that probably would have been won anyway.

 

[NZTailender]

And I'm usually not one to say 'na na na na' but Darren Lehmann saying they need to behave more like New Zealand, after I've spent years saying the Australian way of cricket is BS, was such a sweet symphony. Wonder what Brad Haddin made of that comment, I presume he backs it seeing he's one of Lehmann's assistants.

Reckon it's just platitudes to make it sound like they're looking to alternatives. I'm thinking of making a longer post but it all seems like smoke and mirrors and empty talk about a change, to me.

 

[social]

Here's a bigger question and I'll be curious to hear people's takes- over the last decade or so I feel like there's been a massive increase in the amount of bowlers who are able to use reverse swing at some point in an innings of a test match (I remember about ten years ago a lot of conversations with friends about how the test format was doomed because of the proportion of games that were drawn, which seems to have gone out of the window as an issue since then). At this point it's pretty hard to look at that fact without a bit of cynicism- I think it's safe to say there should be some suspicion on any bowler who can get it to reverse after anything less than 50 overs, and even then it really shouldn't be anywhere near as common as it is (baring in mind it requires the ball getting that scuffed on one side and remaining that shiny on the other in the normal course of play, which should not be happening any near in even half of games). So presuming the ICC are going to start cracking down on ball tampering pretty hardcore following this incident, is reverse swing on it's way out? And how is that going to affect the entertainment value of test cricket and it's ability to pull in especially newer and younger viewers? I know in the States where I'm now based everyone universally thinks it's terrible that doping was so widespread in baseball but there's a lot of people who can't talk about that era without a little smile of recognition at just how great the games were.

Some bowlers (e.g. Starc) have a perfect action for it due to natural arm & wrist position at delivery

Guys with high actions find it far harder to do without help from the ball and/or conditions

That's not to say it's impossible to do legally btw

Hazelwood, for example, can get it to reverse but has to change his normal wrist position at delivery to do so

 

[stephen]

Is there any chance of CA changing this later so that they can play the test series at home against India?

CA may be hoping Smith issues a legal challenge and gets a reduced sentence. That way he can play and they can still look tough.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

Some bowlers (e.g. Starc) have a perfect action for it due to natural arm & wrist position at delivery

Guys with high actions find it far harder to do without help from the ball and/or conditions

That's not to say it's impossible to do legally btw

Hazelwood, for example, can get it to reverse but has to change his normal wrist position at delivery to do so

I certainly wasn't saying it was impossible, just that it seems unlikely to me that even a bowler with a perfect action for it would encounter the ball in the perfect condition for it as often as they seem to do- let alone some of the one's you'd naturally think might need a little 'extra help'. I was listening to the sticky wicket podcast earlier (which is terrific if you don't subscribe) and one of the lads said his dad worked at a ground in the eighties which hosted Waquar and Wasim and when they looked at the ball after the game there were bits of leather literally ripped off and it was fairly obvious that even geniuses like they had to get a little creative.

My question was that if we're about to see a whole lot less of reverse swing, due to the ICC cracking down on this sort of thing which you'd naturally think they would, what are the ramifications going to be for test cricket in general. Would people miss the thrill of seeing it knowing that you were watching a 'cleaner' game?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

So seeing as Bancroft put sandpaper down his jockstrap will he forever be known as Dick Emery?

 

[SteveNZ]

Reckon it's just platitudes to make it sound like they're looking to alternatives. I'm thinking of making a longer post but it all seems like smoke and mirrors and empty talk about a change, to me.

Very true, time will tell I guess. It's a significant quote though and one the media/public will be able to come back on if it goes custard again.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

So seeing as Bancroft put sandpaper down his jockstrap will he forever be known as Dick Emery?

Oh that is good...

 

[TheJediBrah]

And I'm usually not one to say 'na na na na' but Darren Lehmann saying they need to behave more like New Zealand, after I've spent years saying the Australian way of cricket is BS, was such a sweet symphony. Wonder what Brad Haddin made of that comment, I presume he backs it seeing he's one of Lehmann's assistants.

I doubt he actually means it. Just saying it to make everyone happy.

I doubt it, if they only miss the Zimbabwe and Bangladesh series CA would get slaughtered for going soft and only keeping them out of tests that probably would have been won anyway.

I don't think so. They're being slaughtered already for the absurd excessiveness of the punishments. If there is a successful appeal or 2 it will be seen more as common sense prevailing than them "going soft".

 

[TheJediBrah]

I certainly wasn't saying it was impossible, just that it seems unlikely to me that even a bowler with a perfect action for it would encounter the ball in the perfect condition for it as often as they seem to do- let alone some of the one's you'd naturally think might need a little 'extra help'. I was listening to the sticky wicket podcast earlier (which is terrific if you don't subscribe) and one of the lads said his dad worked at a ground in the eighties which hosted Waquar and Wasim and when they looked at the ball after the game there were bits of leather literally ripped off and it was fairly obvious that even geniuses like they had to get a little creative.

My question was that if we're about to see a whole lot less of reverse swing, due to the ICC cracking down on this sort of thing which you'd naturally think they would, what are the ramifications going to be for test cricket in general. Would people miss the thrill of seeing it knowing that you were watching a 'cleaner' game?

I said this earlier but I'm starting to wonder how much the Pakistanis from the 90s actually were masters of reverse swing and how much was just they were awesome ball tamperers. Feel a bit guilty expressing it because they were great bowlers regardless and my suspicions may be unwarranted but you can't help but wonder.

 

[_Ed_]

So seeing as Bancroft put sandpaper down his jockstrap will he forever be known as Dick Emery?

That's excellent.

 

[straw man]

that it's confirmed it was sandpaper. The yellow tape thing always sounded like the most ridiculous of lies.

Again,what was the point of lying and saying it was tape. Smith really is a ****ing moron.

It would've been to make the tampering seem less pre-meditated and less effective and less serious (because who in their right mind could possibly think gravel-covered-tape would actually work?).

More and more it seems the Smith/Bancroft post-match press conference was such a spectacular ATG ****-up. Instead of choosing one strategy and sticking to it relentlessly like some cynical PR **** would do, they tried to go down several mututally exclusive paths at once. Partly an honest mea culpa, partly a down-play with sneaky lies like 'yellow tape', partly an 'I'm standing up here and taking responsibility', partly denying responsibility and distributing blame over the unnamed 'leadership group'. And even delving into some other self-sabotage by voluntaring extra information on how planned it was and talking about how 'it didn't work'. It was unvarnished and amateurish, which is kinda fortunate imo.

 

[Starfighter]

I said this earlier but I'm starting to wonder how much the Pakistanis from the 90s actually were masters of reverse swing and how much was just they were awesome ball tamperers. Feel a bit guilty expressing it because they were great bowlers regardless and my suspicions may be unwarranted but you can't help but wonder.

Well they were videoed having a nice ball scratch in the '92 series where the accusations really flew.

 

[NZTailender]

I said this earlier but I'm starting to wonder how much the Pakistanis from the 90s actually were masters of reverse swing and how much was just they were awesome ball tamperers. Feel a bit guilty expressing it because they were great bowlers regardless and my suspicions may be unwarranted but you can't help but wonder.

I wonder too

 

[NZTailender]

I wonder too

I was about to say only New Zealand would tamper with the ball and still lose, and yet...

 

[cnerd123]

Imagine if Steve Smith uses this year off, the nets at his home, and a season of grade cricket to work on his legspin bowling too

How awesome would that be

 

[quincywagstaff]

And now the main sponsors of the Test team (Magellan) have ended their sponsorship two years early. I can understand why many think the punishments for Smith and co are harsh but when you factor this in with the TV rights at a very delicate stage, this has been a financial catastrophe for Cricket Australia.

 

[social]

Imagine if Steve Smith uses this year off, the nets at his home, and a season of grade cricket to work on his legspin bowling too

How awesome would that be

I seriously doubt that he has any intention of playing any cricket for the foreseeable future and would be surprised if he turns up to grade before Xmas (if at all)

 

[Starfighter]

And now the main sponsors of the Test team (Magellan) have ended their sponsorship two years early. I can understand why many think the punishments for Smith and co are harsh but when you factor this in with the TV rights at a very delicate stage, this has been a financial catastrophe for Cricket Australia.

I thin it says more about the general mentality that seems to pervade this country. I don't remember sponsors deserting the South African team when Faf and Vern were caught, or the over the various corruption scandals that India has had. Seems to be very much a here phenomenon.