Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[Starfighter]

Glenn McGrath was pretty good at it wasn't he? Damien Fleming too on occasion.

 

[Bolo]

that's already been covered. There was a legit reason for that - illness in the camp.

There was an explanation that was plausible and was accepted as legitimate. This doesn't mean it was actually the reason. Tampering is also a plausible explanation. There's no was to be 100% sure which explanation is correct. At the time gum may have seemed more plausible. Now, I'm not sure. It doesn't actually look like he's being careful enough to spoon sugar, but does gum that isn't individually wrapped even exist, and if it does, why were they using it if there was sickness.

A tampering conviction is inevitably going to lead to a reassessment of prior tampering accusations. Ockham's razor and all that.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Whoops just deleted a post by accident. Anyway was just saying hoe I'm starting to wonder how much the art of reverse swing is about the bowling and how much is just about cleverly tampering with the ball.

- aus could never reverse well, all of a sudden starc is swinging it at pace
- 2005 ashes famous series for reverse swing: proven ball tampering

Maybe pakistan in the 90s were jus awesome tamperers

 

[Adders]

Walking is technically disobeying the umpires decision. If you expect people to walk when they are given not out incorrectly then you should expect them to stand their ground and not leave the field if given out incorrectly. But I digress.

Exactly right, and as much as you can admire Gillys integrety afaic anyway he was a fool for doing so. And I wont argue with any of his team mates that openly said he was doing a disservice to his team.

Which makes the fallout from Trent Bridge Broad all the more infantile and perfectly highlights the Aussie hypocrisy that shits the rest of the world so much......as highlighted very eloquently by ***** earlier.

 

[cnerd123]

Funny, I recall once reading an article, it may have been on cricinfo, it might even have been on here, in which it was mentioned that walking was one thing that wasn't done in English professional cricket, I think up until the nineteen-twenties or so at least, and certainly before WWI, and that it was actually looked down upon for some reason or another. The idea that it is fair play or whatever seems to have become more popular recently, possibly post WWII?

Yup, that's what Derek Pringle implied. In the old day of Amateurs and Professionals, only the Amateurs could afford to walk and uphold the 'spirit of the game'.

In the 60s and 70s the English would still walk for a clear edge (ala Broad) but not for borderline decisions. The trend of not walking altogether seems to have been an Australian invention.

Im aware I'm going entirely off one article written by an English cricketer for an English publication, but nevertheless anyone whose followed cricket for a substantial amount of time knows that Australians are the biggest hypocrites with regards to 'Fair' play that have ever existed. The old West Indians who dominated did have bad on-field manner and were needlessly aggressive, and even intimidated umpires, and none of that is acceptable either, but the Australians mastered the cheeky double-speak of 'Upholding the Spirit of the Game' whilst simultaneously undermining it any way they can.

This whole 'line that we don't cross' was basically 'won't do anything that is in obvious infraction of the laws'. It has nothing to do with 'Fair' play. Rolling a ball along the ground because it wasn't obviously against the rules wasn't 'Fair'. Talking mad **** and getting offended when someone said **** back wasn't 'Fair'. Australians have never cared about being 'Fair'. They only cared about winning and would do anything to achieve it.

Now they've been caught with their pants down doing something basically every other team ever has done, just doing it really badly. They've been caught being hypocrites, of going against their own words. That's what's fantastic. They've been strung by their own noose.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I'm starting wonder how much the art of reverse swing is actually bowler related and how much is just how cleverly you tamper the ball. Australia never used to able to do it that well, now starc is swinging it at pace.

Maybe pakistan in the 90s were just ball tampering pros, who the **** knows.

I think to start with it was just tampering, I do think now that we see sides throwing the ball in to bounce on the old used wickets and scuff it up to help, yes the umpires try to stop it but how many times is it done before they intervene. The saliva with sugary sweets has been done by everyone and anyone who thinks it hasn't is a gullible fool.

There was a time when England got it moving lots then a spell when they didn't. Was that down to sweets not being taken on field only the players will know. We all laughed at "Jellybabygate" but in all honesty no top sportsman should need a sugar rush every few minutes unless they are running a marathon.

 

[StephenZA]

Whoops just deleted a post by accident. Anyway was just saying hoe I'm starting to wonder how much the art of reverse swing is about the bowling and how much is just about cleverly tampering with the ball.

- aus could never reverse well, all of a sudden starc is swinging it at pace
- 2005 ashes famous series for reverse swing: proven ball tampering

Maybe pakistan in the 90s were jus awesome tamperers

I think there is lots of 'techniques' that are not quite legal, but don't involve bringing 'foreign' objects onto the field. Throwing ball in on the bounce etc.

Worst case I've heard though was a wicketkeeper that had a piece of sandpaper between is inner and outer glove, giving the ball a rub every now and again. Apparently was common method.

 

[Adders]

Whoops just deleted a post by accident. Anyway was just saying hoe I'm starting to wonder how much the art of reverse swing is about the bowling and how much is just about cleverly tampering with the ball.

- aus could never reverse well, all of a sudden starc is swinging it at pace
- 2005 ashes famous series for reverse swing: proven ball tampering

Maybe pakistan in the 90s were jus awesome tamperers

Again I agree.....but what you gonna do? You want reverse swing taken out of the game? The answer is (imo anyway) accept that foreign objects is a step too far but dont get your knickers in a knot over murray mints and similar.

 

[Second Spitter]

Remember after the first test in South Africa in 2014 when Australia lost comprehensively after the Saffers were reverse swinging it all over the place...................Australia then mystically rediscovered the art in the next Test after pounding every return from the outfield into the turf.

It was also the same Test when Du Plessis batting, tried to pick up the ball and Smith snarled at him like a dog.

 

[Starfighter]

<text>

No it wasn't even that far. You just didn't walk, at all. As for amateurs, WG Grace certainly never walked, and I bet many other amateurs didn't either. I wish I remember what the article was, it was quite interesting.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Remember after the first test in South Africa in 2014 when Australia lost comprehensively after the Saffers were reverse swinging it all over the place...................Australia then mystically rediscovered the art in the next Test after pounding every return from the outfield into the turf.

Exactly, most teams had used that as the method for a while then the umpires seem to have tried to clamp down on it so I guess they have gone back to using sugar substances and now sandpaper or whatever it was this week.

Anyone who thinks their side hasn't used sweets to try and alter the ball is naive, just some sides are better at covering their tracks than others.

 

[Bolo]

Again I agree.....but what you gonna do? You want reverse swing taken out of the game? The answer is (imo anyway) accept that foreign objects is a step too far but dont get your knickers in a knot over murray mints and similar.

This grey area we are in is probably the best compromise, it's just a bit hard to deal with under the law. Bottletops etc give the bowlers too much advantage, but we want to give them something. Sweets, which everyone uses anyway, might be a nice compromise. They can't be legalized though, or we are going to see players filling their mouths with toffee apples, lacquering the ball and getting as much of an advantage as bottle caps.

 

[cnerd123]

No it wasn't even that far. You just didn't walk, at all. As for amateurs, WG Grace certainly never walked, and I bet many other amateurs didn't either. I wish I remember what the article was, it was quite interesting.

I was quoting an article from Wisden Anthology 1978-2006: Cricket's Age of Revolution - reading the preview on Google. You can probably find it there, just google search the name plus Derek Pringle

 

[Spark]

Rabada's send offs were the issue. The bump was nothing. I don't know why it was focussed on so much.

Send-offs in general are just pathetic


Obviously? I have no idea where you're getting your information from

I mean in the broader picture yes, but they were clearly extremely pissed off that Rabada's ban was overturned. Doubtless that contributed to the siege mentality thing they talked themselves into, rather than "hey, we're 1-1 with two Tests to go".

 

[Spark]

Again I agree.....but what you gonna do? You want reverse swing taken out of the game? The answer is (imo anyway) accept that foreign objects is a step too far but dont get your knickers in a knot over murray mints and similar.

In the broader pictures yes but it's still against the rules and while that's the case they're still peas of a pod at some fundamental level.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I mean in the broader picture yes, but they were clearly extremely pissed off that Rabada's ban was overturned. Doubtless that contributed to the siege mentality thing they talked themselves into, rather than "hey, we're 1-1 with two Tests to go".

How soft are they then if they thought it was a siege mentality over a few taunts from the crowd and a stupid ban being overturned?

 

[Burgey]

Your exact words were.....



So clearly you think your better.

Historically Australia is better. The rest of you need to deal with it. It’s a stone cold fact.

I understand that you all get excited during these short periods of time when Australia doesn’t dominate the game. It’s understandable. But deep down in your coal black hearts you all know shortly everything will go back to its natural order and Australia will be number one again.

It has always been thus and ever will be.

 

[SeamUp]

Hearing a verdict on Wednesday is far too long in my opinion. I guess that means there is a good chance Warner and Bancroft won't be playing on Friday too.

 

[Second Spitter]

Exactly, most teams had used that as the method for a while then the umpires seem to have tried to clamp down on it so I guess they have gone back to using sugar substances and now sandpaper or whatever it was this week.

Anyone who thinks their side hasn't used sweets to try and alter the ball is naive, just some sides are better at covering their tracks than others.

The 2005 Ashes was won on Blood, Sweat and Minties................and voodoo on McGrath.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Hearing a verdict on Wednesday is far too long in my opinion. I guess that means there is a good chance Warner and Bancroft won't be playing on Friday too.

Needs to be done quickly as if players are going to be banned then will they have enough to replace them.