Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[Adders]

The Aussies asked for the stump microphones to be turned down. Next series they're going to get all the cameras turned off

 

[TheJediBrah]

Where do you get the information on what substances that diuretic can or cannot mask?

Genuinely curious. I would imagine it would take a lot of research by someone well versed in the field to know what a certain diuretic is capable of masking. And to my understanding, all it does is make you pee more and help flush out your system quicker, helping you get rid of any drugs in your system faster than they would naturally. But I'm not an expert on this.

It's not particularly complicated, just basically dilutes the presence of doping agents and reduces detectability of them and their metabolites during testing.

Which is funny because you have to use them very soon before testing for them to work, but this means they themselves are detectable because you used them right before testing.

I’m pretty much 100% with you that it was just the antics of a vain moron trying to look good for the hairy backed sheilas- but you can’t know that so you have to go by the book in my opinion. Even if it’s takihg drugs to extend the career that’s still clearly not a level playing field.

Well yeah illegal is illegal which is why he was banned

 

[Spark]

I mean in the end I don't actually think Warne should be condemned forever or anything like that. He did what he did, got an appropriate penalty and served it, and as far as I'm concerned that should be the end of it. But the lack of effect it had on the public estimation of him compared to what's going to happen to Smith is notable and can only be down to Warne being perceived as the "right sort of bloke" and playing in an exceptionally successful side.

 

[cnerd123]

I mean in the end I don't actually think Warne should be condemned forever or anything like that. He did what he did, got an appropriate penalty and served it, and as far as I'm concerned that should be the end of it. But the lack of effect it had on the public estimation of him compared to what's going to happen to Smith is notable and can only be down to Warne being perceived as the "right sort of bloke" and playing in an exceptionally successful side.

I think the fact that there is no footage openly showing Warne conspiring to fail a drug test to get an advantage in a game also helps his case tbh

The Aussies who buy into the myth can always hide behind 'He's just a bloke trying to lose weight / what good does a diuretic do for cricket / these drug tests are nonsense anyways, Lance Armstrong beat them for decades' and go about believing what they always believe. Can't keep doing that in face of video evidence.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I mean in the end I don't actually think Warne should be condemned forever or anything like that. He did what he did, got an appropriate penalty and served it, and as far as I'm concerned that should be the end of it. But the lack of effect it had on the public estimation of him compared to what's going to happen to Smith is notable and can only be down to Warne being perceived as the "right sort of bloke" and playing in an exceptionally successful side.

I'm more of the mind that it's down largely to the way it's reported by the media. The public are by and large pure idiots. Just look at the popularity of reality TV these days. This was reported as "Smith and Aussies cheating". The public don't really understand hence the overreaction.

 

[Spark]

I'm more of the mind that it's down largely to the way it's reported by the media. The public are by and large pure idiots. Just look at the popularity of reality TV these days. This was reported as "Smith and Aussies cheating". The public don't really understand hence the overreaction.

Eh, the furious public reaction kind of pre-dates the media reaction in this case. All the horrible headlines and big 6pm TV news stories came, basically by definition, after every random mouthbreather in the country had called into talkback radio to have their say.

 

[Spark]

I think the fact that there is no footage openly showing Warne conspiring to fail a drug test to get an advantage in a game also helps his case tbh

The Aussies who buy into the myth can always hide behind 'He's just a bloke trying to lose weight / what good does a diuretic do for cricket / these drug tests are nonsense anyways, Lance Armstrong beat them for decades' and go about believing what they always believe. Can't keep doing that in face of video evidence.

Right, it's rationalisation.

 

[cnerd123]

Right, it's rationalisation.

It's like when the Rabada/Smith thing happened, that was fairly easy for the #Believers to rationalise that what Rabada did was actually #CrossingTheLine and take Smith's side and believe the 3 demerit points were warranted, even tho any sensible person could see that it was crazy.

I think the evidence is so damning right now that the #Believers are having a crisis of faith, and so they've decided that what they Believe in isn't wrong, it's that Smith and Co. are the devils who are going against everything that Australian Cricket stands for, and so they must be banished in order to preserve the sanctity of Australian Cricket.

It's so fantastic. Puritanical Australian Cricket Fans are my new favorite meme fan group.

 

[quincywagstaff]

The hysteria amongst the general public is in part because of the significance and pretentiousness that has been built around Australian cricket in recent decades especially.

The way the media builds up Australian cricket as a reflection of the nation (as absurd as it is), the fetishism surrounding the Baggy Green, the matter-of-fact way being Australian captain is the second biggest job in Australia, the increasing air of pomposity surrounding Australian cricket, all these are factors.

And when things go well, Australian cricket has used this to its advantage by making cricket a defining feature of Australian culture, even amongst those who don't care for the game much.

But the big downside is when things go awry like this because it isn't just senior cricketers making a grave error of judgement, it's a blight on the Australian character! Cricket Australia have cultivated this and exploited it and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

I mean in the end I don't actually think Warne should be condemned forever or anything like that. He did what he did, got an appropriate penalty and served it, and as far as I'm concerned that should be the end of it. But the lack of effect it had on the public estimation of him compared to what's going to happen to Smith is notable and can only be down to Warne being perceived as the "right sort of bloke" and playing in an exceptionally successful side.

Similar phenomenon with Botha’s in England, might just be that some people are Teflon with the public for whatever reason.

 

[social]

I'm more of the mind that it's down largely to the way it's reported by the media. The public are by and large pure idiots. Just look at the popularity of reality TV these days. This was reported as "Smith and Aussies cheating". The public don't really understand hence the overreaction.

It's not confined to Joe Public

A friend on FB is threatening to hand in his SCG membership unless Smith is banned for life

He played A grade for years and would know exactly what goes on

Best response came from a former test cricketer who replied with "Have I ever told you why I wore zinc cream?"

 

[outbreak]

Offtopic but I was always surprised there wasn't an amphetamine scandal in cricket, I remember seeing an article about baseball and after all the PEDs were banned the drop off in stats wasn't as big as the drop off after amphetamines were targeted and a bunch of players said it was drugs like that that improved your concentration that were the really big game changers for them.

In terms of banned substances for cricket there's a lot that would help you out.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

Offtopic but I was always surprised there wasn't an amphetamine scandal in cricket, I remember seeing an article about baseball and after all the PEDs were banned the drop off in stats wasn't as big as the drop off after amphetamines were targeted and a bunch of players said it was drugs like that that improved your concentration that were the really big game changers for them.

In terms of banned substances for cricket there's a lot that would help you out.

There are people who think it’s coming- if you start juicing your muscles it can affect muscle memory which could mess with your technique and rhythm, still the most important things for a batsman. But as t20 rises and rises pure power may overtake those and then all hell could seriously break loose.

 

[TheJediBrah]

There are people who think it’s coming- if you start juicing your muscles it can affect muscle memory which could mess with your technique and rhythm, still the most important things for a batsman. But as t20 rises and rises pure power may overtake those and then all hell could seriously break loose.

Maybe but any genuine use of anabolic steroids would be detrimental to most cricket IMO. Bowling isn't the same as pitching, nor is batting the same as standing at a plate and swinging. Though I have a feeling there are a few WI T20 merchants around who are on a bit of the stuff. Andre Russel tested positive IIRC (or maybe just avoided testing).

 

[CM Punk]

I'm glad the Aussies have been exposed.

They were clearly up to no good the last time they played a Test series here, they consistently got the old ball to reverse.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

Maybe but any genuine use of anabolic steroids would be detrimental to most cricket IMO. Bowling isn't the same as pitching, nor is batting the same as standing at a plate and swinging. Though I have a feeling there are a few WI T20 merchants around who are on a bit of the stuff. Andre Russel tested positive IIRC (or maybe just avoided testing).

Standing at a plate and swinging could become a pretty decent summary of the ipl in a few years mate given the amount of cash available to top t20 players I wouldn’t be surprised if some are tempted- not saying it will definitely happen but very easily could do. Less so for the bowlers though definitely.

 

[cnerd123]

Maybe but any genuine use of anabolic steroids would be detrimental to most cricket IMO. Bowling isn't the same as pitching, nor is batting the same as standing at a plate and swinging. Though I have a feeling there are a few WI T20 merchants around who are on a bit of the stuff. Andre Russel tested positive IIRC (or maybe just avoided testing).

Russel avoided testing.

'Classical' batting and bowling is all about rhythm and having a wide range of movement, but I can see batsmen and bowlers adapting their techniques to more power-heavy styles and going to steroids to increase their strength. Russel is actually a decent example of this - why he has some solid cricket skills, he does muscle the ball down when bowling and relies on big heavy swings to score a lot of his runs.

 

[Bolo]

At one point I remember chess was trying to get some kind of international recognition or something and had to incorporate drug testing as a formality. There was a Ukrainian player who was furious after losing a match on a blunder and refused to take the test out of anger. Wound up with like a two year suspension or something for chess!

I went through this in a game a bit like chess that they are trying to turn into an Olympic sport. Where I'm from, it's less competitive than village cricket. I went overseas to play a tournament. Had a drug test run by the actual people who had run Olympic tests. Was pretty annoyed by it too. Say to the woman running it "What is the point of this, what drugs can you even take that would enhance performance?". She replies, "If I knew the answer to that, I'd be taking them 24/7 myself". Got a laugh out of that one.

 

[Ausage]

It's like when the Rabada/Smith thing happened, that was fairly easy for the #Believers to rationalise that what Rabada did was actually #CrossingTheLine and take Smith's side and believe the 3 demerit points were warranted, even tho any sensible person could see that it was crazy.

I think the evidence is so damning right now that the #Believers are having a crisis of faith, and so they've decided that what they Believe in isn't wrong, it's that Smith and Co. are the devils who are going against everything that Australian Cricket stands for, and so they must be banished in order to preserve the sanctity of Australian Cricket.

Works the other way with the #haters too though.

 

[Zinzan]

Hyperbole much. No way will it be a life ban for both Smith & Warner.

Smith, Warner could face life ban from CA - ESPNcricinfo