South Africa team selection

[Bahseph]

SeamUP, that's exactly my thoughts on the Bavuma/de Bruyn situation. We know what Bavuma can do, but de Bruyn needs a consistent run just like the one that was afforded to Bavuma. Surely Steyn isn't going to play the last Test without any game time? But the more I think about it the more I feel it could happen. Gibson did say he wants him to play when he has some bowling cover. ie four seamers.

 

[Bolo]

Steyn and bavuma are pretty different cases in my mind. Steyn needs to prove fitness, bavuma doesn't. Bavuma is a question of form. Maybe he shouldn't have been rushed back, but I'm not sure- I don't know what sort of confidence the selectors would have had in his form. He is the incumbent though (even if his record isn't that great), and competing against a guy who clearly doesn't have form, so fair enough to include him if he was looking good in the nets.

Putting aside targets, he should be on a fairly short leash by now though. Giving him a reasonable run is fine, but I'd say reasonable turns into unreasonable a few games from now.

 

[Dendarii]

Steyn and bavuma are pretty different cases in my mind. Steyn needs to prove fitness, bavuma doesn't. Bavuma is a question of form. Maybe he shouldn't have been rushed back, but I'm not sure- I don't know what sort of confidence the selectors would have had in his form. He is the incumbent though (even if his record isn't that great), and competing against a guy who clearly doesn't have form, so fair enough to include him if he was looking good in the nets.

I'd agree with that - the circumstances surrounding each player are entirely different. I suppose it comes down to a question of how much time without having played is too much. If Bavuma had just missed one or two games then we wouldn't be questioning his selection, but two months without playing is perhaps a little bit too long.

 

[Bolo]

There are some real selection headaches for the final test. 4 bowlers clearly seems the right strategy vs Australia. Morkel can't be dropped for his final test after this performance. Ngidi deserves to play, and merit is amplified by quota concerns. We may want to go all pace because it's the Wanderers. But I'm not sure we can rely on getting enough overs out of ngidi in a 4 man pace attack. Going 4 man pace without ngidi just sounds ridiculous.

If it's not looking like a green top, I'd probably claim ngidi isn't 100% and play the Newlands lineup. If it is a green top, I'm not too sure what can be done without dropping bavuma's, and I doubt they will want to give him only 1 game after that layoff.

 

[SeamUp]

Same team.

Only change if necessary due to conditions is Ngidi for Maharaj.

Can't pick Bavuma with no match practice and drop him next game. Too many wrong signals.

 

[Bolo]

You think there isn't going to be the some blowback over dropping a black talent like Ngidi if he is fit? I agree on the team selection if quota issues are excluded.

If conditions are unsuited to spin, do you have faith that a 4 man attack that includes Ngidi can get through the overs properly?

Agree that promptly dropping bavuma is not appropriate.

 

[StephenZA]

Same team.

Only change if necessary due to conditions is Ngidi for Maharaj.

Can't pick Bavuma with no match practice and drop him next game. Too many wrong signals.

Or outside chance they play Mulder and Ngidi for Bavuma and Morkel, keeping quotas, 4 pace seam attack and still have the spinner. Not really weakening the team considering the no 6 has produced no runs in this series.

 

[SeamUp]

Or outside chance they play Mulder and Ngidi for Bavuma and Morkel, keeping quotas, 4 pace seam attack and still have the spinner. Not really weakening the team considering the no 6 has produced no runs in this series.

Can you honestly see them

1) Bringing back Bavuma unfairly too soon and then leaving him out ?
2) Picking Mulder in a key game when it genuinely does seem they just trying to give him exposure before Zimbabwe/Sri Lanka/Pakistan ?
3) Not picking Morne Morkel after his performance and arguably his best test ground in performance at the Wanderers ?

 

[SeamUp]

You think there isn't going to be the some blowback over dropping a black talent like Ngidi if he is fit? I agree on the team selection if quota issues are excluded.

If conditions are unsuited to spin, do you have faith that a 4 man attack that includes Ngidi can get through the overs properly?

Agree that promptly dropping bavuma is not appropriate.

I hope not. I genuinely think Ngidi is being introduced perfectly so far. Saw Otis going to the nets with him during the test and continual work.

I don't see why not ? If the Wanderers is thusing the normal pitch then why give free runs using a spinner more than you should ? If you look back at recent tests - spinners used are going for like 1/90 - If we need to use Elgar/Markram for like 5 overs then so be it. But saying that if they get there and the conditions are dry because of late summer I think we have to go with the same team.

Steyn will be back for Sri Lanka most probably and we will have the same issues with Ngidi. I think introducing him steadily will be perfect and in 2 years time when 23/24 he will hopefully be a permanent fixture fitness depending.

Bavuma gets this test and then it's open season for me and the number 6 spot for Sri Lanka.

 

[StephenZA]

Can you honestly see them

1) Bringing back Bavuma unfairly too soon and leaving him out ?
2) Picking Mulder in a key game when it genuinely does seem they just trying to give him exposure before Zimbabwe/Sri Lanka/Pakistan ?
3) Not picking Morne Morkel after his performance and arguably his best test ground in performance at the Wanderers ?

Unlikely they will do that I`m just saying! We know Gibson wants an all-rounder, we know we have to try fill the quotas but Bavuma looked terrible batting. And this last match felt very much like a Morkel send off match.

But I agree, I would just go with the same team.

 

[Tec15]

De Bruyn back for Bavuma and Ngidi for Maharaj for me.

 

[SeamUp]

Unlikely they will do that I`m just saying! We know Gibson wants an all-rounder, we know we have to try fill the quotas but Bavuma looked terrible batting. And this last match felt very much like a Morkel send off match.

But I agree, I would just go with the same team.

I know. It's that balance thing. At least we have these options

It's nuts how good our depth of fast bowling has been. We've lost Abbott and now Morkel and we still should be flying high.

 

[Bolo]

I don't see why not ? If the Wanderers is thusing the normal pitch then why give free runs using a spinner more than you should ? If you look back at recent tests - spinners used are going for like 1/90 - If we need to use Elgar/Markram for like 5 overs then so be it. But saying that if they get there and the conditions are dry because of late summer I think we have to go with the same team.

We haven't tried Ngidi without a spinner, except when we went 5 man pace. All pace may be the best strategy, particularly when you consider how much rain JHB has been having recently, but I'm concerned about having all pace when one of the bowlers has endurance concerns. Getting 5 overs from Elgar isn't the same as 20 overs from a proper spinner. This may be the best solution anyway (not sure), but it's far from a perfect one.

I either agree with the rest or hope to agree. It's hard to have clarity on what is going on with quotas behind the scenes.

 

[SeamUp]

We haven't tried Ngidi without a spinner, except when we went 5 man pace. All pace may be the best strategy, particularly when you consider how much rain JHB has been having recently, but I'm concerned about having all pace when one of the bowlers has endurance concerns. Getting 5 overs from Elgar isn't the same as 20 overs from a proper spinner. This may be the best solution anyway (not sure), but it's far from a perfect one.

I either agree with the rest or hope to agree. It's hard to have clarity on what is going on with quotas behind the scenes.

Forgot about the weather !!

That may make things more obvious.

Also think Chris Scott may be taking a more hands on role in pitch prep. No more shenanigans otherwise a ground ban could happen

 

[StephenZA]

Also think Chris Scott may be taking a more hands on role in pitch prep. No more shenanigans otherwise a ground ban could happen

Would that not just be the cherry on the cake for this series.... an abandoned test and Wanderers get banned... don't think that will actually happen.

 

[Dendarii]

We haven't tried Ngidi without a spinner, except when we went 5 man pace.

Although that fifth man was Phehlukwayo who hardly bowled in the match.

 

[Bolo]

Although that fifth man was Phehlukwayo who hardly bowled in the match.

When you play five bowlers and the match is low scoring, it's usually going to be overkill. 5 bowlers of one type in particular. That pitch had horrifically uneven bounce.

With 4 bowlers you run the risk of it not really being enough on a more placid track, and them running out of juice, or of one getting injured.

 

[Marius]

I'm happy to keep the team as it is - TDB could maybe be given another go, but don't think we should drop Maharaj.

 

[SeamUp]

Gibson and Ontong outline their plans at Annual Newlands Test Address

​Introducing more front-foot cricket and the establishment of a more attacking culture instead of safety first, have been part of his outlook as coach of the South African team, said Ottis Gibson.

Ontong revealed that when he was first phoned by Gibson, he thought it was as a call-up to the national squad as a playing member.

He was surprised to learn that Gibson wanted him to be part of his management team.

His whole life was devoted to be playing 50 tests for South Africa, but things did not turn out this way. When he was selected for his first test in 2001/2002 in accordance with the transformation guidelines by the president of Cricket South Africa, Percy Sonn, the Australians sledged him.

He suffered a bit of mental hurt but he recovered quite well to ply his trade for the next sixteen years, he said.
“The dressing room was a lonely place back then,” he said. “I received enormous backing from Gulam Rajah (the team manager) and my room-mate Makhaya Ntini,” said Ontong.

When he was ready to be selected in 2002 in South Africa against Australia, he got injured and Ashwell Prince replaced him. (It was the start of a very successful test career for Prince).

When Prince was injured in 2008/2009, JP Duminy replaced him and it was the start of a great international career for him.

Both the president, Beresford Williams, and chief executive officer of the Western Province Cricket Association (WPCA), hailed the contribution of Ontong to cricket in the Western Cape over an extended period which included a golden era of five titles between 2012 and 2014.

Gibson said one of his objectives in 2018 and 2019 is to prepare the team to be the fittest that they can be before a Cricket World Cup. “The team possess the talent, the class and the match awareness to win the coveted trophy,” he said.

But sometimes players are picked in the Proteas squad and they are not able to sustain the intensity needed at this level. It is something he trusts can change.

The enlarging of the pool of white ball cricketers to be available for the World Cup has started and Junior Dala, Heinrich Klaasen and Lungi Ngidi are part of the group.

“When April 2019 arrives, we will have a selection headache, which is a good thing,” Gibson added.

Gibson said sport psychologists will be part of the one-on-ones in the build-up to the Cricket World Cup in 2019.

Probed about the qualifiers for the Cricket World Cup, Gibson said he would have preferred to see more teams rather than the limited group of ten to contest the World Cup in 2019.

Gibson said Kagiso Rabada is probably the best fast bowler in South Africa apart from Dale Steyn.

“We have a strong fast bowling unit, but we need to have more control of their strength and conditioning (in the countdown to the Cricket World Cup) than what is presently the case,” Gibson said.
​
“We must carefully manage their work load.”

 

[Bahseph]

I'm still brimming with excitement everytime I think about the fact that Dale hasn't retired and wants to play again. Rabada is a joy to watch and could be even greater than Dale eventually but is there anything better than watching a rhythmical Steyn spell? Maybe watching AB bat.