Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[Shady Slim]

well **** me sideways with a rusty spork this is disgraceful

smith wonders why they get no sympathy from the home crowd then comes out with this

 

[Red]

What I find remarkable is that the Australians thought for one moment that the cameras wouldn't pick it up, and then having realised they had, proceeding to make themselves look infinitely worse by trying to hide the evidence - are they thick, arrogant or both?

As to trying to alter the condition of the ball all bowlers have tried it since time immemorial, which is why I told the Mailey/Douglas story - it's against the rules so there has to be a sanction but for me the basic sin is not as bad as sledging, and certainly not in the same league as any sort of fixing, or a fielder/keeper claiming he has held a catch when he knows damn well he hasn't - in fact I'd view a warningless mankading as more annoying, and that of course isn't even against the rules

It's funny what we see as ok and not ok I guess. To me a warningless mankad is perfectly ok. There's a clear rule there, there's a literal line drawn on the ground. Don't back up so far as to get yourself mankadded. It's an error or judgement on the batsman's behalf, and if he's out, he's out. Couldn't be clearer.

Fixing is obviously woeful, as is claiming a catch you know you didn't take cleanly, but I legit think 99% of the time fielders have no idea in how quick it all happens.

To me this is so bad because it's a deliberate ploy to cheat and they knew they were cheating, and they discussed it before hand and arranged it and got Bancroft to do it. Fully pre-meditated, and the disgrace is that none of the leadership team were ethical enought to think "this is wrong", and nor were they smart enough to think "there are a hundred cameras watching everything we do out there". So dumb.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

What I find remarkable is that the Australians thought for one moment that the cameras wouldn't pick it up, and then having realised they had, proceeding to make themselves look infinitely worse by trying to hide the evidence - are they thick, arrogant or both?

As to trying to alter the condition of the ball all bowlers have tried it since time immemorial, which is why I told the Mailey/Douglas story - it's against the rules so there has to be a sanction but for me the basic sin is not as bad as sledging, and certainly not in the same league as any sort of fixing, or a fielder/keeper claiming he has held a catch when he knows damn well he hasn't - in fact I'd view a warningless mankading as more annoying, and that of course isn't even against the rules

Right, but for me there's ball tampering and there's ball tampering- crosses a line when you go from dirt or saliva to get a shine or fingernails under the seam vs actually bringing an implement onto the pitch for no other purpose than a pre-mediated attempt to gain an advantage. I know it's a little legally abstract, but there's clearly a difference.

 

[Burgey]

Remember when Tendulkar got caught ball tampering?

Completely irrelevant but I’m passing some time at an airport and wanted to really blow up the thread.

 

[Gnske]

Remember when Tendulkar got caught ball tampering?

Completely irrelevant but I’m passing some time at an airport and wanted to really blow up the thread.

...Come on man he hasn't even been retired that long.

Don't speak ill of the greats

 

[Flem274*]

Right, but for me there's ball tampering and there's ball tampering- crosses a line when you go from dirt or saliva to get a shine or fingernails under the seam vs actually bringing an implement onto the pitch for no other purpose than a pre-mediated attempt to gain an advantage. I know it's a little legally abstract, but there's clearly a difference.

stop speaking australian

tampering is tampering. i take a less dim view of it than most but there's no real difference between using mints, bottle caps, cameron bancroft or afridis mouth except in potential effectiveness.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Remember when Tendulkar got caught ball tampering?

Completely irrelevant but I’m passing some time at an airport and wanted to really blow up the thread.

You don't understand the kind of pressure he was under

 

[Shady Slim]

Right, but for me there's ball tampering and there's ball tampering- crosses a line when you go from dirt or saliva to get a shine or fingernails under the seam vs actually bringing an implement onto the pitch for no other purpose than a pre-mediated attempt to gain an advantage. I know it's a little legally abstract, but there's clearly a difference.

stop speaking australian

tampering is tampering. i take a less dim view of it than most but there's no real difference between using mints, bottle caps, cameron bancroft or afridis mouth except in potential effectiveness.

i agree with larwood's boots, i think it's more the premeditation
like it just feels worse when it's a conscious decision of the leadership group to bring an implement on and cheat, compared to some big galoot quick giving the ball a cheeky fingernail once before he runs up

 

[Sarun]

what are the applicable sanctions in this case?

 

[SeamUp]

To be honest I reckon Pat Cummins stood on the ball deliberately now too.

Even my favourite Aussie cricketer is doing things out of character in this test.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

Speaking Australian have you seen my username?

Again, I clearly said that it was abstract but to me there is a difference- this feels much worse than the Faf thing for example. Imran's bottle caps were a little before my time and the Afridi thing was just bizarre.

 

[fredfertang]

Right, but for me there's ball tampering and there's ball tampering- crosses a line when you go from dirt or saliva to get a shine or fingernails under the seam vs actually bringing an implement onto the pitch for no other purpose than a pre-mediated attempt to gain an advantage. I know it's a little legally abstract, but there's clearly a difference.

Yes, of course, and then there are the times bowlers are just too clever to get caught - Bob Massie at Lord's in '72 - I can't believe he didn't have any artificial aids but he was never caught - has Chappelli said anything about this one yet? Some of the England players thought he was Massie's bird lime repository

 

[vandem]

i agree with larwood's boots, i think it's more the premeditation
like it just feels worse when it's a conscious decision of the leadership group to bring an implement on and cheat, compared to some big galoot quick giving the ball a cheeky fingernail once before he runs up

There's a second issue here, fairly sure Bancroft has lied to the umps, if you watch the video I suspect they are asking something like "there may be an issue with altering condition of the ball, can we please see what is in your pockets?", to which he shows them a black cloth, because, technically, the yellow tape is not in his pocket anymore. But producing the black cloth is a lie, he knows it at the time, and the umps and match referee know it now.

 

[zaremba]

There's a second issue here, fairly sure Bancroft has lied to the umps, if you watch the video I suspect they are asking something like "there may be an issue with altering condition of the ball, can we please see what is in your pockets?", to which he shows them a black cloth, because, technically, the yellow tape is not in his pocket anymore. But producing the black cloth is a lie, he knows it at the time, and the umps and match referee know it now.

Yup.

And Smith was there during that discussion. Complicit.

And Lehmann (it seems on the video evidence) had tipped him off (via the 12th man) that he'd been busted, so he'd hidden the offending article. Complicit?

 

[fredfertang]

There's a second issue here, fairly sure Bancroft has lied to the umps, if you watch the video I suspect they are asking something like "there may be an issue with altering condition of the ball, can we please see what is in your pockets?", to which he shows them a black cloth, because, technically, the yellow tape is not in his pocket anymore. But producing the black cloth is a lie, he knows it at the time, and the umps and match referee know it now.

Atherton lied to Peter Burge when he was in trouble - I don't think the lie is particularly heinous, and if I was being really anal I'd query the lack of a caution before he was asked the question

 

[marc71178]

To be honest I reckon Pat Cummins stood on the ball deliberately now too.

Even my favourite Aussie cricketer is doing things out of character in this test.

The problem with stepping on the ball is it’s equally likely to get to the side you’re not aiming for realistically.

 

[social]

****ing "leadership" my arse

I'm not going to try playing holier than thou as I cannot remember bowling a spell where I didnt tamper with the ball - sunscreen, picking at the seam, loading one side up with moisture, throwing the ball into the ground, etc was all technically illegal but it was also generally accepted

Taking a foreign object onto the field is not and I cannot imagine anyone even suggesting it

Anyone involved in the decision should be suspended and Smith should lose the captaincy

If they have to fly in a whole new team then so be it

**** it, they should probably forfeit the match as well!

This is not on and they have brought disgrace onto Australian cricket

 

[zaremba]

Atherton lied to Peter Burge when he was in trouble - I don't think the lie is particularly heinous, and if I was being really anal I'd query the lack of a caution before he was asked the question

There's no shortage of PACE in the Aussie team.

*gets coat and wig*

 

[Midwinter]

In yesterday's paper Gideon Haigh had an article about how sporting body's find ways of avoiding enforcing their own rules when the top players breach the rules, he called it Hero Tolerance.

It was very timely, as it will ensure the actions of the officials regarding the top echelon of Australian players will be even more closely watched.

Personally I am disgusted by the actions of Smith and his team.

Having sat through countless presentations on the video screen at the test match at the MCG of Smith and the other senior Australian players telling us of all the types of behaviour that will not be tolerated by Cricket Australia, I hope that they will be punished to the full extent of the rules and then punished appropriately by Cricket Australia for bringing the game into disrepute.

YMMV

 

[fredfertang]

*gets coat, silk robe and wig*

Can't have you on the forum improperly dressed Mr Z