***Official*** Australia in South Africa 2018

[TheJediBrah]

The way he disrespected AB with that run out really disappointed me. This is a genuinely great cricketer, and a classy bloke too. You don't treat him like that when he's just been run out for a duck.

Not that I've ever really rated Lyon much in the first place

 

[Burgey]

Yeah I don’t know what got into Lyon there. Was a bit ordinary

 

[Bolo]

You're still completely missing the point. Having a low(er) percentage of middle order wickets is not a weakness. It's a statistical side-effect of his particular strength of getting out tailenders better than other bowlers.

As I said, you wouldn't even consider this "weakness" if he was simply worse at getting out tailenders because his percentage of middle order wickets would be higher as a result, even though he wouldn't actually be getting them out more.

On the maths, you have only considered one direction- increase one number (top and lower wickets) and you decrease another relatively. You are not considering the fact that if you decrease another number (middle order) you increase the top and middle relatively. Both of these are occurring, not just the one you want to highlight.

His distribution could be indicative of him having ridiculous strengths and no weaknesses. He could be the best bowler in history and be just as good at the middle as anyone else, and just be better at the top and tail than everyone else. He isn't. He's a 27ish average bowler not a 17 average bowler. Watch him bowl without swing. It's definitely a weakness. At this stage in his career he doesn't have the variation in skillset or levels of control that make others good against the middle. He isn't mediocre against the middle because he is good with the moving ball, he is simply mediocre against the middle, a fact that exists independently of his swing bowling.

If he was worse at getting the tail out, he would have a higher average, higher strike rate and a lower wpm. Every one of this factors is more important than his distribution of wickets, and I would consider him a significantly worse bowler if he wasn't good at the tail. You are constructing a straw man in your perceived slights on Starc. It's not necessary. He is bowling like a beast at the moment and that is enough.

 

[TheJediBrah]

On the maths, you have only considered one direction- increase one number (top and lower wickets) and you decrease another relatively. You are not considering the fact that if you decrease another number (middle order) you increase the top and middle relatively. Both of these are occurring, not just the one you want to highlight.

No because you are claiming it's the middle order that's his weakness, hence why that's under discussion. And regardless, no, the middle order is a smaller sample size. Suggesting that figures for the middle order affects the others in anywhere near the same magnitude as the reverse is stupid.

His distribution could be indicative of him having ridiculous strengths and no weaknesses. He could be the best bowler in history and be just as good at the middle as anyone else, and just be better at the top and tail than everyone else. He isn't. He's a 27ish average bowler not a 17 average bowler. Watch him bowl without swing. It's definitely a weakness. At this stage in his career he doesn't have the variation in skillset or levels of control that make others good against the middle. He isn't mediocre against the middle because he is good with the moving ball, he is simply mediocre against the middle, a fact that exists independently of his swing bowling.

No one said he had no weaknesses.

If he was worse at getting the tail out, he would have a higher average, higher strike rate and a lower wpm. Every one of this factors is more important than his distribution of wickets, and I would consider him a significantly worse bowler if he wasn't good at the tail. You are constructing a straw man in your perceived slights on Starc. It's not necessary. He is bowling like a beast at the moment and that is enough.

I've said exactly that twice. I also said that I don't really even like him that much, I think he's overrated by almost everyone. I'm not constructing a straw man, you're just not paying any attention to anything I'm saying.

He has plenty of weaknesses, he's no where near the best bowler in the world IMO, but the weakness you've picked out is all in your imagination. He's no worse against the middle order than most other fast bowlers. He's just not that good a bowler to be averaging low-20s in general, not just against the middle order.

Also as I said earlier, if he was just not as good at getting out tailenders and averaged ~30 no one would even think of saying he wasn't as good at getting out the middle order. It's only become a weakness because of his other strengths.

 

[StephenZA]

Yeah I don’t know what got into Lyon there. Was a bit ordinary

At least you could see Lyon was contrite... no excuses, apparently phoned and apologised. Everybody gets worked up sometimes, its when they and others try excuse their behaviour that you go 'what a prick'...

I have never had a problem with sledging per se, don`t think family should be brought into it, but sledging like all aggressive, belligerent, bullying behaviour, may start out as some small quips too often ends up escalating into something larger. So I'm amused when people say things like it needs to stay on the field, because at some stage it will go off the field...

By the way what is the difference between sledging and bullying somebody?

 

[TheJediBrah]

% of Wickets taken that were batsmen no. 4-7:

Starc = 34.1%
Philander = 34.0%
Morkel = 34.7%
Hazelwood = 34%

Steyn = 35.6%
Glenn McGrath = 34.8%

This whole perceived statistic doesn't even seem to have any basis in reality anyway lol. Starc's percentage of middle-order wickets isn't even lower than most other quicks. What a stupid argument to be having.

 

[StephenZA]

On the Starc as a bowler subject... think that he has a false reputation as only a lower order wicket taker, more because of how quickly he destroys the lower order when the ball starts reversing at the end of the day, which he is a master at.

 

[OverratedSanity]

People only say stuff should stay on the field when it's convenient to them. Like when Brad Haddin cheated by clean bowling neil Broom, and Vettori rightly called him a cheat. And with no self awareness, Haddin went to the media and aired his greivances about Vettori saying Vettori shouldn't have aired his greivances about Haddin to the media.

 

[GotSpin]

Im enjoying all the posters coming out of the woods when there's a sledging controversy against Australia. Conveniently ignoring that Australia just ripped the proteas a new one in the first test.

 

[Starfighter]

Im enjoying all the posters coming out of the woods when there's a sledging controversy against Australia. Conveniently ignoring that Australia just ripped the proteas a new one in the first test.

It's their victim complex. They can't stand to see us win.

 

[sunilreddy]

Try to do the same with Kohli arrogant oz, he will make your ***** bleed and you will cry like a ravaged beech

 

[sunilreddy]

It's their victim complex. They can't stand to see us win.

like you won against srilanka and India you pathetic shameless losers

 

[Second Spitter]

The way he disrespected AB with that run out really disappointed me. This is a genuinely great cricketer, and a classy bloke too. You don't treat him like that when he's just been run out for a duck.

Not that I've ever really rated Lyon much in the first place

If his personal life is any indication, then I think we are only now starting to see his true colours.

 

[StephenZA]

Im enjoying all the posters coming out of the woods when there's a sledging controversy against Australia. Conveniently ignoring that Australia just ripped the proteas a new one in the first test.

Think that a number commentated on the cricket as it ended... but not much to say. SA did not bat or bowl well in the first innings, seniors need to stand up. Will we play Mulder/Bavuma/de Bruyn at #6 in PE and will Morkel keep his place? Aus played well, but nothing amazing, unlikely to change anything.

 

[Second Spitter]

People only say stuff should stay on the field when it's convenient to them. Like when Brad Haddin cheated by clean bowling neil Broom, and Vettori rightly called him a cheat. And with no self awareness, Haddin went to the media and aired his greivances about Vettori saying Vettori shouldn't have aired his greivances about Haddin to the media.

Hah. Remember Haddin's spat with Chris Gayle? he aired his grievances literally the second he left the field.

Timestamp: 1:40

 

[Burgey]

Try to do the same with Kohli arrogant oz, he will make your ***** bleed and you will cry like a ravaged beech

He’ll lose 3-0 here. 4-0 if it doesn’t rain. You’re being silly. Stop it.

What’s more, he has a genuine pirate’s delight. Couldn’t knock the fuzz off a peach.

 

[Burgey]

Hah. Remember Haddin's spat with Chris Gayle? he aired his grievances literally the second he left the field.

Timestamp: 1:40

Don’t blush babeh

 

[Second Spitter]

Have to say, baseball's approach to policing bad apples like Warner works better.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's their victim complex. They can't stand to see us win.

It sounds arrogant, but it's pretty true. It's been going on since before I've been following cricket. Some if them don't even realise they're doing it, they've genuinely convinced themselves that Australia are lucky/cheaters/bad people.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Try to do the same with Kohli arrogant oz, he will make your ***** bleed and you will cry like a ravaged beech

like you won against srilanka and India you pathetic shameless losers

Lol case in point