• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

***Official*** Australia in South Africa 2018

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I wouldn't pick Steyn this time. When he came back from his previous injury he at least had 35-40 overs of competitive (albeit LO) cricket under his belt and this time it'll be somewhat similar with an FC game. I don't think it's enough cricket for a man who's barely bowled since November 2016.
 

the big bambino

International Captain
Probably Shaun Marsh. He's been re-selected more times than every other batsman in Australia put together.
Which is weird because I mentioned him and Mitch in my post. Wonder what it is about posters here that they don't get that a general policy doesn't mean in every instance?
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Which is weird because I mentioned him and Mitch in my post. Wonder what it is about posters here that they don't get that a general policy doesn't mean in every instance?
ftr I agree with what you said re. Australia going with proven domestic performers over "potential" players more so than other sides. Of course anyone can come up with examples that don't suit the trend but that's meaningless.

Take my opinion with a grain of salt though, I don't really know much about other countries' cricket
 
Last edited:

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Australia don't pick players on age or "gut" as a policy. They pick on performance irrespective of age. Handscomb and Bancroft got their spots because they performed at the critical moment, not because the selectors "saw something in them". Accordingly they'll get dropped if they don't perform, as happened to the younger Martyn, Hayden and Langer and has happened to Handscomb while Bancroft is teetering. Its happened to both Marshes. Whereas a gut pick like Maddinson exploded in their faces. They probably gut picked Paine too. But he worked, possibly because he is more mature and his skill as a keeper is known. It seems our fc class comp does favour producing more mature players bcos it works over young players until they develop the skill to survive then prosper. They are usually approaching their 30s when that happens.

You could say Jhye Richardson is a gut pick but there'll be less pressure on him bcos, all things being equal, he'll be a squad member instead of in the test team. So he can be groomed rather than be expected to perform. But overall the fc system seems to favour experienced and older players and gut picks are a sign of desperation on the part of selectors.
In general agree that Aus tends to be able to, and does, pick proven players, so does SA when given an opportunity. However it depends on the state of the team as well; my original point was that Aus had a fantastic team during the late 90`s into the 2000's with lots of depth at the FC level. It is quite clearly not the same today and when Aus has struggled, they have picked a few players on 'potential' rather than outright proven ability and scores, because there is no obvious replacement just waiting to come off the ranks (hence the Marshes),... that is when teams do look at talented youngsters that may fill a role. Of course any player needs to have put up some scores and shown something before getting selected.

Specific to SA's problem is that we need a decent batting allrounder and none of the current players are putting up their hands (however weak the FC system is) nobody is outright doing more than everybody else. So we have ended up picking Morris (who is erratic) and Phehlukwayo (who has potential but also for non-cricketing reasons is being picked, and is more a LO player), but I am advocating for Mulder, who is just 20 has put some good performances in and has a lot of ability; if there was a 30 year old player that was playing out of his skin that would be easy pick. There is not such a player in SA at the moment.

If SA go for a 7/4 split, with injuries to the first choice replacement, Bavuma, and an injury cloud over Faf, do you bring in a 30ish age batsman as a replacement that has had a single goodish season but not shown much else, and will probably play a maximum of 2 tests before the first choices come back; if he was a batsmen who had been scoring lots of runs for 2 or 3 seasons that was just unlucky not to be able to replace the incumbents then he would be an easy choice.... not what we are talking about here. Or do you go for a 6/5 split and play the extra bowler/erratic allrounder or do you consider the highly talented youngster that has scored runs and been taking wickets, but still unproven.... so making a 'gut' call and sometimes just going for an unproven because there is no obvious better choice? And every team and selection panel has done that at some stage, sometimes it has worked, sometimes not.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Quite so. Some don't even bother coming up with examples.
Actually Paine is a very good example of a gut feel pick. Almost no first class cricket and third choice keeper for his weak state team. That it succeeded - sort of - is neither here nor there. He had no real prior performance (one fifty doesn't count) to back it up. His last FC ton come a decade ago, and he's often not kept recently. His selection for the ODI side was not based on any recent form at all in that format. His selection was pretty much the definition of a gut feel selection. Success or failure doesn't change that.
 
Last edited:

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Actually Paine is a very good example of a gut feel pick. Almost no first class cricket and third choice keeper for his weak state team. That it succeeded - sort of - is neither here nor there. He had no real prior performance (one fifty doesn't count) to back it up. His last FC ton come a decade ago, and he's often not kept recently. His selection for the ODI side was not based on any recent form at all in that format. His selection was pretty much the definition of a gut feel selection. Success or failure doesn't change that.
Still his only First-class ton.

So weird given that he has 8 List A tons, from much less innings.
 

the big bambino

International Captain
Actually Paine is a very good example of a gut feel pick. Almost no first class cricket and third choice keeper for his weak state team. That it succeeded - sort of - is neither here nor there. He had no real prior performance (one fifty doesn't count) to back it up. His last FC ton come a decade ago, and he's often not kept recently. His selection for the ODI side was not based on any recent form at all in that format. His selection was pretty much the definition of a gut feel selection. Success or failure doesn't change that.
Yet of all the controversial choices made by the selectors this year it was the one I agreed with. Nevill and Wade both retreated when the position was there to be won. Since there was nobody else Paine was actually a logical choice for the circumstance. Because his reputation as a gloveman was known and that he could produce runs at international level. Its a selection out of the box but its based on a known track record.

Whereas Carey, who was spoken about at the start of the summer, would have been a gut selection.
 
Last edited:

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nevill basically tore the hell out of the Shield with his batting. So saying he retreated is an overstatement at the very least.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Nevill basically tore the hell out of the Shield with his batting. So saying he retreated is an overstatement at the very least.
An overstatement? Do you mean an understatement? He went from one of the most dominant Shield batsmen (averaged 45+ consistently) to a guy struggling to keep an average above 20 this season. And he's looked horrible doing it.

Saying he retreated is putting it mildly.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The 2017-18 season had barely started before the squads were announced for the Ashes. Making the call on the basis of a couple of games was a gut decision. His fantastic run of last season was discounted utterly.
 

Gnske

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The 2017-18 season had barely started before the squads were announced for the Ashes. Making the call on the basis of a couple of games was a gut decision. His fantastic run of last season was discounted utterly.
One word, Hobart.

It became clear there that Nevill was the true achilles heel of the test batting order.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yet of all the controversial choices made by the selectors this year it was the one I agreed with. Nevill and Wade both retreated when the position was there to be won. Since there was nobody else Paine was actually a logical choice for the circumstance. Because his reputation as a gloveman was known and that he could produce runs at international level. Its a selection out of the box but its based on a known track record.

Whereas Carey, who was spoken about at the start of the summer, would have been a gut selection.
A known track record that was years in the past with little recent performance to show that it might continue and wicketkeeping skills that often weren't being exercised. Paine did no more than Nevill to gain the spot.

You're basically saying 'selections I like were based on performance', even if they weren't.
 

Top