The lack of competitiveness of Test teams away from home

[andruid]

There was a time in the mid noughties when India were reasonably good tourists. The days of a Dravid-Tendulkar- Ganguly middle order, plus the likes of Zaheer Khan and Harbajan stepping up from time to time. From the time they managed a draw against a really strong Australia team to beating England 1-0 at least.

 

[TheJediBrah]

There was a time in the mid noughties when India were reasonably good tourists. The days of a Dravid-Tendulkar- Ganguly middle order, plus the likes of Zaheer Khan and Harbajan stepping up from time to time. From the time they managed a draw against a really strong Australia team to beating England 1-0 at least.

Leaving out Laxman is criminal

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Think the fact sides are in and out with very little cricket played outside the internationals has something to do with it. In years gone by there would be first class games galore on a tour before and during the test series against proper sides but now they play a mickey mouse team on a crap pitch and then get hammered once the proper stuff starts.

 

[andruid]

Leaving out Laxman is criminal

I knew there was someone I was missing.

 

[Furball]

Even if you go back to 2010/11, England had two proper First Class games against state sides, as well as a First Class match against Australia A at Hobart. Which off the top of my head had Hughes, Khawaja, Smith, O'Keefe and Paine in the XI.

It surprises me that the England Lions don't play fixtures against touring sides. Surely you want to know if the next guys in line might have what it takes against a proper international attack.

The games being proper First Class games vs 13 or 15 a side is also important IMO, because they count towards a player's record, as much as a player's First Class record isn't as big a deal these days.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Even if you go back to 2010/11, England had two proper First Class games against state sides, as well as a First Class match against Australia A at Hobart. Which off the top of my head had Hughes, Khawaja, Smith, O'Keefe and Paine in the XI.

It surprises me that the England Lions don't play fixtures against touring sides. Surely you want to know if the next guys in line might have what it takes against a proper international attack.

The games being proper First Class games vs 13 or 15 a side is also important IMO, because they count towards a player's record, as much as a player's First Class record isn't as big a deal these days.

A full strength Australia A used to play (and usually win) a real 4 day tour game every year (as well as a few 50 over matches) and they used to televise it on 9 too. I still remember watching Martin Love make 200* against England in 2002/03 at Hobart on TV

And true that it was just as important for the local players development & experience as it was to warm up the touring side

 

[S.Kennedy]

Martin Love had three years at Durham. If memory serves he made two gigantic 250 plusers for us.

 

[Coronis]

Yeah if you want more competitive series you need more first class tour matches. The Invincibles wouldn't be that impressive anymore not losing a tour match.

 

[GotSpin]

Who makes the decision not to schedule them is it? Or is it a joint agreement

 

[GotSpin]

Yeah if you want more competitive series you need more first class tour matches. The Invincibles wouldn't be that impressive anymore not losing a tour match.

Australia didn't schedule many first class matches (if at all) in their recent tour against India and were just so close from winning

 

[stephen]

Australia didn't schedule many first class matches (if at all) in their recent tour against India and were just so close from winning

Yeah but not every side in the world can pick Steven Smith.

 

[GotSpin]

Yeah but not every side in the world can pick Steven Smith.

Yeah I can't be bothered looking at the stats right now, but it shows that a dedicated and prepared camp before a series may do well as preparation

It's better than going to Sri Lanka and getting green decks at the training facilities or outdoor facilities against Bangladesh that get rained out

 

[mr_mister]

removing the coin toss and letting the away side choose what they wanna do first fixes this problem

 

[DriveClub]

Yeah I can't be bothered looking at the stats right now, but it shows that a dedicated and prepared camp before a series may do well as preparation

It's better than going to Sri Lanka and getting green decks at the training facilities or outdoor facilities against Bangladesh that get rained out

Actually playing 2 tests against Bangladesh is as good warm up as you can get

 

[TheJediBrah]

Who makes the decision not to schedule them is it? Or is it a joint agreement

Usually up to the touring side to schedule games. It's rarely if ever a deliberate effort on the part of the hosts to deny a good warm up, that would be disgraceful.

The only example I can think of was Aus tour of SL in 2016 where they were (very deliberately) given a warm up game on a green pitch against a side full of seam bowlers as warm up for Tests where SL (very deliberately) prepared dust bowls. The funny thing about was that SL didn't even pretend that they didn't do it on purpose either, they openly talked about it all in press conferences.

 

[Furball]

Australia didn't schedule many first class matches (if at all) in their recent tour against India and were just so close from winning

Werren't they in the UAE preparing for a while first? It wasn't like they just rocked up in India a couple of days before the first Test, got hammered and then wondered why.

 

[stephen]

Yeah I can't be bothered looking at the stats right now, but it shows that a dedicated and prepared camp before a series may do well as preparation

It's better than going to Sri Lanka and getting green decks at the training facilities or outdoor facilities against Bangladesh that get rained out

Yeah they did. But look at the series averages and runs scored. Take Smith out and it's 4-0 India.

 

[GotSpin]

Werren't they in the UAE preparing for a while first? It wasn't like they just rocked up in India a couple of days before the first Test, got hammered and then wondered why.

Yeah my point being that you don't necessarily need loads of tour matches. They probably learnt that lesson from Sri Lanka the previous year

 

[Victor Ian]

Check out this tour to England in 1989.

That series is in stark contrast to modern series.

Australia in England : May/Sep 1989 (6 TESTS)
Australia in England May/Sep 1989 - Test Averages
Australia in England May/Sep 1989 - Tour Averages
Australians v Duchess of Norfolk's XI at 7 May 1989, 7 May 1989
Australians v League Cricket Conference XI at 5 May 1989, 5 May 1989
Australians v Minor Counties at 17 July 1989, 17 Jul 1989
Australians v Oxford and Cambridge Universities at Oxford, 28 Jun 1989
Australians v Oxford and Cambridge Universities at Oxford, 28 Jun 1989
Australians v Scotland at 15 July 1989, 15 Jul 1989
Sussex v Australians at Hove, 9 May 1989
Marylebone Cricket Club v Australians at Lord's, 11 May 1989
Worcestershire v Australians at Worcester, 13-14 May 1989
Somerset v Australians at Taunton, 17-19 May 1989
Middlesex v Australians at Lord's, 20-22 May 1989
Yorkshire v Australians at Leeds, 23 May 1989
1st ODI: England v Australia at Manchester, 25 May 1989
2nd ODI: England v Australia at Nottingham, 27 May 1989
3rd ODI: England v Australia at Lord's, 29 May 1989
Warwickshire v Australians at Birmingham, 31 May-2 Jun 1989
Derbyshire v Australians at Derby, 3-5 Jun 1989
1st TEST: England v Australia at Leeds, 8-13 Jun 1989
Lancashire v Australians at Manchester, 14-16 Jun 1989
Northamptonshire v Australians at Northampton, 17-19 Jun 1989
2nd TEST: England v Australia at Lord's, 22-27 Jun 1989
Glamorgan v Australians at Neath, 1-3 Jul 1989
3rd TEST: England v Australia at Birmingham, 6-11 Jul 1989
Hampshire v Australians at Southampton, 19-21 Jul 1989
Gloucestershire v Australians at Bristol, 22-23 Jul 1989
4th TEST: England v Australia at Manchester, 27 Jul-1 Aug 1989
Nottinghamshire v Australians at Nottingham, 2-4 Aug 1989
Leicestershire v Australians at Leicester, 5-7 Aug 1989
5th TEST: England v Australia at Nottingham, 10-14 Aug 1989
Kent v Australians at Canterbury, 16-18 Aug 1989
Essex v Australians at Chelmsford, 19-21 Aug 1989
6th TEST: England v Australia at Kennington Oval, 24-29 Aug 1989
Australians v The Netherlands at The Hague, 2 Sep 1989
Australians v The Netherlands at The Hague, 3 Sep 1989
Australians v Denmark at Bronsby Stadium, 5 Sep 1989
Australians v Denmark at Slagelse Stadium, 6 Sep 1989


No wonder teams had a much better chance back then.

An interesting observation is that the ODI series was played before the tests. This is something that should be done now, as it at least gives the players more time to get used to foreign conditions. It may not benefit a whole test team as only perhaps half crossover, but at least half get more time to acclimatise better.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Australia didn't schedule many first class matches (if at all) in their recent tour against India and were just so close from winning

They did head to Dubai where they could control their preparation (which they haven't been able to do as well as they'd like in previous Indian series) for a few weeks before heading to India.