***Official*** 3rd Test at the WACA

[Groundking]

County cricket should have its two games returned to it that the ECB stole two years ago. It should also run across June-August to prioritise the good weather (as should test cricket). Strauss should keep his hands of England internationals who want to play first-class for their counties rather than be kept aside for bish bash bosh cricket. The Twenty20 Blast should be played two weeks max - bring in groups to shorten it - and get it over and done with as it currently lasts forever and is hard to follow. The new proposed Australian style Twenty20 shouldn't happen (good to see the counties recently protesting against it incidentally, basically saying they were conned into voting for it).

Sorted.

I don't see why county cricket and the short format **** can't just run side by side TBH, I'd also split it into 3 leagues of 6, so the top league reflects the formats of SA and Aussie cricket, to try and increase the competition between sides and have a more strongly concentrated level of talent, whilst also reducing the amount of cricket played.

Think there definitely needs to be a long discussion about Stuart broad, felt like people have been really focusing on cook a lot in terms of if he's coming to the end but broad is actually probably in worse form going back to India. Had a poor summer, looks lost right now and I'm sure what he really offers at this point that Overton and trj don't have.

I don't think he was so great in the Pakistan home series either TBH, I also kinda got my hopes up that he was having a return to form in the first test, where he actually looked decent and threatening, but since then he's taken 2 wickets @ 105 in 3 innings (one still going), and didn't really look threatening in Adelaide where conditions suited us and it showed with how well Anderson and Woakes bowled (particularly in the second innings)

 

[Larwood's_boots]

County cricket should have its two games returned to it that the ECB stole two years ago. It should also run across June-August to prioritise the good weather (as should test cricket). Strauss should keep his hands of England internationals who want to play first-class for their counties rather than be kept aside for bish bash bosh cricket. The Twenty20 Blast should be played two weeks max - bring in groups to shorten it - and get it over and done with as it currently lasts forever and is hard to follow. The new proposed Australian style Twenty20 shouldn't happen (good to see the counties recently protesting against it incidentally, basically saying they were conned into voting for it).

Sorted.

Whatever you think of the new t20 competition (I'm generally a little softer on t20 than others because I genuinely do think I would have liked it when I was a kid) putting it in August is absolutely profoundly idiotic. Everyone agrees that England need to find top class graham Swann level spinners for the test side so why stop playing red ball cricket for the one month in this country when the non-somerset pitches are actually going to dry out and have a bit of tweak. The mind boggles!

 

[LegionOfBrad]

It is weird how the writing was on the wall with the Indian series a year ago and absolutely nothing was done (but Cook retiring for Root)! In fact the spinner problem is even worse as Rashid fell out of favour for some odd reason with the set-up (selectors? Root? who knows?). That is the difference between this series and 2013-14. This Ashes disappointment was so completely predictable. The spinner problem has been there since Swann flaked out after Perth 2013!

They decided to bring in Dawson as the new front line spinner. Moeen then outbowled him and we're back to Moeen. Moeen is actually really good in England and not up to much else where.

 

[marc71178]

County cricket should have its two games returned to it that the ECB stole two years ago. It should also run across June-August to prioritise the good weather (as should test cricket). Strauss should keep his hands of England internationals who want to play first-class for their counties rather than be kept aside for bish bash bosh cricket. The Twenty20 Blast should be played two weeks max - bring in groups to shorten it - and get it over and done with as it currently lasts forever and is hard to follow. The new proposed Australian style Twenty20 shouldn't happen (good to see the counties recently protesting against it incidentally, basically saying they were conned into voting for it).

Sorted.

Until 2020 when the whole thing goes bust.

As for adding first class games, how is that going to help produce genuine quick bowlers? They literally can't bowl 90mph for the amount of games that are scheduled so they don't even try.

 

[marc71178]

Maybe, and I certainly can't argue that his figures last winter added up to much. However, the idea that Crane is an upgrade is just silly, so you do wonder if Root's shares some of the general Yorkshire antipathy towards Rashid after the denouement to the 2016 CC.

Oh I certainly agree about Crane, his call-up was a total and utter farcical selection but equally Rashid isn't the answer.

Have to face the fact that we don't have a spinner worthy of the name so Moeen Ali is the one we have to pick.

 

[LegionOfBrad]

Whatever you think of the new t20 competition (I'm generally a little softer on t20 than others because I genuinely do think I would have liked it when I was a kid) putting it in August is absolutely profoundly idiotic. Everyone agrees that England need to find top class graham Swann level spinners for the test side so why stop playing red ball cricket for the one month in this country when the non-somerset pitches are actually going to dry out and have a bit of tweak. The mind boggles!

Yes it's stupid. People have been saying this for a while (including Swann) and nothing will change.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I don't see why county cricket and the short format **** can't just run side by side TBH,

We had this for while. The spectators prefer it, with the Twenty20s on either a Friday or Saturday, but the players prefer the different competitions in a block.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Until 2020 when the whole thing goes bust.

As for adding first class games, how is that going to help produce genuine quick bowlers? They literally can't bowl 90mph for the amount of games that are scheduled so they don't even try.

Nobody is adding anything. The games were removed, about two seasons ago. Currently the season is a dog's dinner, with every team playing two counties only at home, and two counties only away. The divisions are also unequal. The whole thing was buggered up. I know a lot of members who decided to not renew.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

Rashid isn't the answer for sure, doesn't have the control for test cricket. Four doozies and two loose ones an over might be fine with the white ball but a test batsman with time on his side can just block and wait for his bad balls which they can tuck away to the boundary.

 

[S.Kennedy]

If not Rashid, who? Either you give the kids a 'wild card' selection (Crane or Bess) or return to Rashid, Leech or Dawson. I hear a lot of people criticise those aforementioned suggestions yet I've never heard an adequate alternative accept persevere with the next-to-useless M. Ali as a batting all-rounder.

Beggars can't be choosers here.

 

[marc71178]

Christ, if you really think Moeen Ali is "next to useless" then you're more clueless then I thought.

 

[JRC67]

If not Rashid, who? Either you give the kids a 'wild card' selection (Crane or Bess) or return to Rashid, Leech or Dawson. I hear a lot of people criticise those aforementioned suggestions yet I've never heard an adequate alternative accept persevere with the next-to-useless M. Ali as a batting all-rounder.

Beggars can't be choosers here.

The issue is there is no alternative. I'm sure Leach will get a go and I wouldn't be shocked if we end up back at Dawson. The hope is that one of the teenage spinners will come through really strongly at some point in the next 4 years.

A bigger worry is that when Anderson goes we'll start to struggle to win home tests. Not having a top line quick and a decent spinner makes winning away from home tough. Not having a top medium fast bowler might make winning at home very difficult.

 

[marc71178]

Nobody is adding anything. The games were removed, about two seasons ago. Currently the season is a dog's dinner, with every team playing two counties only at home, and two counties only away. The divisions are also unequal. The whole thing was buggered up. I know a lot of members who decided to not renew.

Yes the games were removed, therefore if you change the system again (and how do you play 16 games in an 8 team division without "buggering it up"?) then you would be adding games - is taht difficult to comprehend?

What is actually needed is fewer games if you want to properly develop extreme quicks.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Yes the games were removed, therefore if you change the system again (and how do you play 16 games in an 8 team division without "buggering it up"?) then you would be adding games - is taht difficult to comprehend?

What is actually needed is fewer games if you want to properly develop extreme quicks.

I completely disagree. Less games will have the reverse effect in producing test bowlers!!

 

[Burgey]

Broad and Ali’s lack of output with the ball has killed England more than anything else.

You know coming into the series that Anderson’s method isn’t ideal to Australia, but he’s bowled fine tbh. Had a good game in Adelaide and was a threat in Brisbane too. He’s pretty much done what about expected of him over here and has bowled to the plans devised (whether they’re the right plans is a separate question).

Broad is the sort of bloke you’d expect to do better here. Tall, gets bounce and hits the deck, but tbh he’s been tres ordinaire save one or two spells and doesn’t look likely. Ali being completely toothless (at least in part due to his finger injury) means he hasn’t bowled long, containing spells which help bring the two best quicks into the game for longer periods.

For all he gnashing of teeth re the batting, they’ve actually performed pretty well given the doubts over the side coming in. Vince has an 80 in brisbane, stoneman has been consistent and Malan far better than expected. They’ve put up some reasonable totals - good enough that you’d expect your opening bowlers with over 800 wickets between them to bowl well.

The bowling has killed England, not the batting.

 

[Gnske]

I completely disagree. Less games will have the reverse effect in producing test bowlers!!

Well look at Australia, you get to play 10 FC games a season at most and we have good stocks when they aren't all dying of horrible wounds.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Broad wasn't even that good in England last season (20 wickets at 33.90 v SA/WI)

 

[Tannhauser]

Broad and Ali’s lack of output with the ball has killed England more than anything else.

You know coming into the series that Anderson’s method isn’t ideal to Australia, but he’s bowled fine tbh. Had a good game in Adelaide and was a threat in Brisbane too. He’s pretty much done what about expected of him over here and has bowled to the plans devised (whether they’re the right plans is a separate question).

Broad is the sort of bloke you’d expect to do better here. Tall, gets bounce and hits the deck, but tbh he’s been tres ordinaire save one or two spells and doesn’t look likely. Ali being completely toothless (at least in part due to his finger injury) means he hasn’t bowled long, containing spells which help bring the two best quicks into the game for longer periods.

For all he gnashing of teeth re the batting, they’ve actually performed pretty well given the doubts over the side coming in. Vince has an 80 in brisbane, stoneman has been consistent and Malan far better than expected. They’ve put up some reasonable totals - good enough that you’d expect your opening bowlers with over 800 wickets between them to bowl well.

The bowling has killed England, not the batting.

What you say is as true as the fact that series in Australia aren't won without 1st innings scores of 450+.

The whole team is to blame - the bowlers and batsmen are both putting pressure on each other.

 

[Tannhauser]

Broad wasn't even that good in England last season (20 wickets at 33.90 v SA/WI)

I said throughout the summer that Broad was beginning to look like a bowler on the wane, only to hear after each Test about how he had been "unlucky", "didn't get the breaks", etc.

I love the guy, 8-15 and all that, but is there anyone still willing to call him "unlucky"?

 

[S.Kennedy]

Well look at Australia, you get to play 10 FC games a season at most and we have good stocks when they aren't all dying of horrible wounds.

A Shield team only plays four first-class games less than a county championship team, and you cannot really compare the two considering the Shield exclusively consists of Australians (and Mason Crane) whereas the championship has overseas, kolpakers and guys on second passports which allow English counties to rotate eligible Englishmen in and out of the first team. I'm never going to believe that playing less competitive (first-class) cricket produces better (first-class) bowlers. The format of sixteen games/two divisions (2000 - 2016) saw Steve Harmison, Simon Jones, Fred, Swann and Monty flourish.