***Official*** West Indies in New Zealand 2017

[Howsie]

It’s not fair enough. Anyone who rates Wagner higher than either Southee or Boult needs their head checked.

 

[Athlai]

Or their arm x rayed

 

[Zinzan]

Good series from New Zealand, but the Windies only showed glimpses if we're honest.

Hard to believe that's half our Test season over fellas.

On to the ODI selections, and how stupid to rest Williamson for a series Guptill is already injured for, with the rationale being that it's going to be a busy summer. We've played two whole Tests after months off.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Good series from New Zealand, but the Windies only showed glimpses if we're honest.

Hard to believe that's half our Test season over fellas.

On to the ODI selections, and how stupid to rest Williamson for a series Guptill is already injured for, with the rationale being that it's going to be a busy summer. We've played two whole Tests after months off.

Haven't done the maths, but would think the NZ international summer is a lot less than the NZ domestic summer in terms of days and overs played.

The Blackcaps, where you come when you need a break from international 20-20 competitions.

 

[Neil Young]

Good series from New Zealand, but the Windies only showed glimpses if we're honest.

Hard to believe that's half our Test season over fellas.

On to the ODI selections, and how stupid to rest Williamson for a series Guptill is already injured for, with the rationale being that it's going to be a busy summer. We've played two whole Tests after months off.

I think the stupid thing is persisting with guys like Broom and Nicholls. Neither are good enough at the top level. It's becoming more difficult to get out of the team than to get in. And it's clearly quite difficult to get in. It's a depressing ODI squad.

 

[Woodster]

So disappointed with the Windies batting yesterday, some of them clearly have talent and all the shots (barring anything to a short ball) but just don't apply themselves enough or look to bat for a whole day. So many tame dismissals, a limp hook shot after a beautiful drive, or cutting a ball too close to you when the angle of the bowler has been changed in order to cramp the batsman for room. They don't seem to think about their batting and I guess the lack of any experience in there doesn't help at all.

However, credit to the NZ bowlers, I still find it a little difficult at times to understand what makes Wagner so effective with the constant peppering of the batsmen with the short ball but they really didn't have any answers. Love his aggression and the accuracy of his bouncers are excellent.

Southee and Boult still the main men for me despite Southee looking down on pace, a really good duo with the new ball and caused many a moment of discomfort for WI in this Test.

Where do you guys stand on De Grandhomme ? He looks a decent bits and pieces cricketer or is that doing him a disservice ? Very useful runs this series at number seven, nice to have someone batting there that can make hundreds, and his bowling looks steady and probably quite threatening in the right conditions. I like him but just wondered if NZ are going to move up to the next level whether he'd be looked at as one to be replaced, although his record with bat and ball at the moment is really impressive.

 

[Slifer]

Can't say I'm surprised by this result. NZ are extremely tough to beat at home unless you're: OZ, ENGLAND or RSA. And even in the case of South Africa, they barely escaped with a win. Pakistan got trounced similarly by NZ and they're a much better team than WI, so even with all the glimpses by the WI recently there is obviously still much work to be done. Well played nz.

 

[Bahseph]

Liked how Riefer dug in across both innings. Didn't look to pull in and have a bash. Might be a handy player to have around.

 

[Prince EWS]

Liked how Riefer dug in across both innings. Didn't look to pull in and have a bash. Might be a handy player to have around.

I was impressed with how well he was able to bowl to some plans that probably would've been pretty far outside how he usually bowls, too. Big ask on debut.

He really seemed to 'get' Test cricket immediately with bat and ball -- it's a shame he's probably not really skilled enough with either to stay there. In a way that makes him pretty much the opposite to most of his teammates.

 

[Bahseph]

That is one of the biggest issues I've had with Holder. He always looks good when batting with his drives and elegance, but you get the feeling he will play one too many shots and get out. Which is often the case to be fair.

To the NZ fans, I pretty much watch all of NZ test matches, and I can't see any improvement in Santner as a batsman. He never let's anyone down with the ball as he is picked to be a holding bowler but he has huge defensive problems against proper pace. How does he go in Domestic cricket with the bat? Does he atleast look like a batsman?

 

[Moss]

I think the stupid thing is persisting with guys like Broom and Nicholls. Neither are good enough at the top level. It's becoming more difficult to get out of the team than to get in. And it's clearly quite difficult to get in. It's a depressing ODI squad.

Nicholls has played some important innings against decent sides both in ODIs and tests, so we should reserve judgement on him. Reasonable candidate for the Grant Elliott (batting) role IMO, though Latham probably has that nailed now. The Broom selection shows a lack of imagination, however. Maybe that changes by the time Pakistan comes. Also, would have liked to see either of Blundell or Philips in the squad; what is with NZ being so reluctant to play any of the younger keepers in the limited overs side? Makes you wonder if we'd still be stuck with Ronchi had he not retired.

 

[Moss]

Where do you guys stand on De Grandhomme ? He looks a decent bits and pieces cricketer or is that doing him a disservice ? Very useful runs this series at number seven, nice to have someone batting there that can make hundreds, and his bowling looks steady and probably quite threatening in the right conditions. I like him but just wondered if NZ are going to move up to the next level whether he'd be looked at as one to be replaced, although his record with bat and ball at the moment is really impressive.

I see him as an early-days Ravindra Jadeja, real asset in home conditions but would probably be a liability abroad. Will be interested to see how he goes in the England series. Unlike Anderson and Neesham in recent times he seems to have a knack of making his opportunities count, but then both of them had very promising starts to their test careers too.

 

[Beamer]

My usual post series thoughts:

- New Zealands bowling attack was too good for our batsmen. I really do think it's as simple as that. There are sub questions to ask like how it came to pass that our batsmen can be terrorised by short bowling from an attack that doesn't pass the 140kph mark and averages out between 128 and 132 kph. But ultimate credit to New Zealand, they spotted a real flaw in our batsmen and had the skill and fitness to relentlessly execute their plans. That is top class test cricket.

- I'm trying not to get too carried away with wins or too despondent at losses with this group because I understand how young they are and that they have come a long way in the last couple of years. But there's no doubt that this was a disappointing test series for all of our batsmen. Given recent performances I expected them to compete in one of the tests and perhaps even win but they weren't even close. Hopefully they take that reality check and continue working hard.

- One problem I do have with this test side though is that I don;t feel it has a West Indian identity. They don;t play cricket in a way that the West Indian public can identify with. They were so meek throughout this series. Most of the batting was either very negative or foolhardy, there was no rhythm in between. We had the fastest bowler in the series by a country mile and yet he wouldn't even bowl a bouncer at tailenders slogging it all over the place. I know they wanted to build a team full of young players that work hard but there's just no fire in them. It's telling that their best performances of recent times come when all and sundry are cussing them. That's when they get fired up. That wasn't the case here and they were just passive. Now young Hetmeyer didn't score too many but I loved every minute he batted. I felt entertained and like the opposition were under pressure. We need to find that mix in both are batting and bowling. You can't have a team of hetys but at the same time you can't fill them in with plodders either.

- I have run out of patience with Dowrich. He just looks awful. Yes he got a century against Zimbabwe but he has dropped crucial catches in literally every test this year and has barely scored a run. It is a huge weakness having someone at 7 who can;t score runs. When we bowl the NZ top order out relatively cheaply they were hit out of trouble by people in that position whereas we're getting nothing from him.

- Similarly , Powell is borderline dropable. He has gotten so many starts and the thrown them away. When he gets the inevitable low scoring match it sends his average plummeting. If they could persuade Evin Lewis to give tests a go I would drop Powell in a heart beat.

- Cummins was a pleasant surprise, he bowled pretty well. Not spectacular, but there might be something to work with.

- Really feel for Ambris, what a nightmare first series. Still, I have seen enough of him to know he has a lot going for him and is worth a run.

My squad of players to use for the home test series would look something like this:

Openers

Braithwaite
Lewis (Powell can stay otherwise but on a last chance saloon)

Middle Order

Bravo (hopefully common sense prevails)
Hope (wicketkeeper)
Chase
Hetmeyer (preferably batting 5 or 6 though)
Ambris ( reserve wicketkeeper)
Blackwood (particularly if Bravo is still not available)

All-rounders

Holder
Cornwall (it's time. He's lost weight. He offers batting depth and highly skilled off-spin)
Reifer (back up all-rounder)

Bowlers

Bishoo
Cummins
Gabriel
Joseph
Roach
Keon Joseph (Next cab on the rank, very quick opening bowler)

Dowrich does not give us anything and we cant just go back to Ramdin. So until someone scores runs in FC cricket we should make use of the fact that Hope and Ambris are solid FC wicket keepers.

 

[_Ed_]

Where do you guys stand on De Grandhomme ? He looks a decent bits and pieces cricketer or is that doing him a disservice ? Very useful runs this series at number seven, nice to have someone batting there that can make hundreds, and his bowling looks steady and probably quite threatening in the right conditions. I like him but just wondered if NZ are going to move up to the next level whether he'd be looked at as one to be replaced, although his record with bat and ball at the moment is really impressive.

CDG has been immense. I don't think anyone here can honestly say they truly expected him to be a successful test player, but he's made a significant contribution with bat and/or ball in just about every game he's played.

I think his 6/40 on debut may have been a little bit fluky, but even if you take that out, he's got a bowling average in the low 30s and a batting average higher than that. You'd take that any day of the week.

At the moment he's indispensable, and even if his form dips during the England series I'd say he's done enough for another chance in the next test series after that (whenever the **** that is).

 

[Beamer]

Last thing, we need to sort this over-rate issue out. Kraigg was also charged and it was just as slow in the second test. Shannon Gabriel is the main cause of this, he walks back so slowly to his mark and basically bowls 2 overs worth of no balls per test. They need to sort it out unless we want to play musical chairs with our captains.

 

[Athlai]

CDG has been immense. I don't think anyone here can honestly say they truly expected him to be a successful test player, but he's made a significant contribution with bat and/or ball in just about every game he's played.

I think his 6/40 on debut may have been a little bit fluky, but even if you take that out, he's got a bowling average in the low 30s and a batting average higher than that. You'd take that any day of the week.

At the moment he's indispensable, and even if his form dips during the England series I'd say he's done enough for another chance in the next test series after that (whenever the **** that is).

Yeah basically CDG is a total and utter fluke, no one understands just how he’s been so successful and we’re all worried if we talk about it too much it’ll stop happening.

 

[NZTailender]

I was impressed with how well he was able to bowl to some plans that probably would've been pretty far outside how he usually bowls, too. Big ask on debut.

He really seemed to 'get' Test cricket immediately with bat and ball -- it's a shame he's probably not really skilled enough with either to stay there. In a way that makes him pretty much the opposite to most of his teammates.

in an overall way, he reminded me a bit of Ian Bradshaw

 

[NZTailender]

That is one of the biggest issues I've had with Holder. He always looks good when batting with his drives and elegance, but you get the feeling he will play one too many shots and get out. Which is often the case to be fair.

To the NZ fans, I pretty much watch all of NZ test matches, and I can't see any improvement in Santner as a batsman. He never let's anyone down with the ball as he is picked to be a holding bowler but he has huge defensive problems against proper pace. How does he go in Domestic cricket with the bat? Does he atleast look like a batsman?

We don't really know because he doesn't play enough which is why he is getting a continued run at Test level so he can learn, according to one of the selectors, which is just madness. I think the perception is he made a good account of himself on debut vs Australia, got some props from the Aussie commentary box so they're going to persist with him as a project player to be Dan Vettori 2.0. Except Dan pretty much only batted 8 and forced his unorthodox technique to work. Santner is more classical and does actually have some potential but similarly is too unpolished at this stage.

What he really needs is a run in domestic cricket - but that's not going to happen when there's L/O matches to play. Nor if they keep playing him in Tests during Plunket Shield rounds. Ideally, a county stint batting 6 would probably do him wonders, as well as help with his containment bowling.

There is some ability to his batting - he could make a more than decent 7 or 8. To bat at 6 though he would need some serious time out to work out his game, fix up his flaws, and become technically sound. Also, having a clear sense of his role would work - is he a batting all-rounder? A 'genuine' all-rounder? Or bowling all-rounder who is for containment on non-turning decks?

 

[NZTailender]

CDG has been immense. I don't think anyone here can honestly say they truly expected him to be a successful test player, but he's made a significant contribution with bat and/or ball in just about every game he's played.

I think his 6/40 on debut may have been a little bit fluky, but even if you take that out, he's got a bowling average in the low 30s and a batting average higher than that. You'd take that any day of the week.

At the moment he's indispensable, and even if his form dips during the England series I'd say he's done enough for another chance in the next test series after that (whenever the **** that is).

He's a bit of a conundrum, really. He's done well when I haven't really expected it, but still have this feeling he'll be found out and get destroyed by quality opposition - yet did not-bad against South Africa. Doubt he'd travel well, save for some green English pitches or, perhaps bizarrely, on the subcontinent getting a bit of seam movement and to cover batting if we played 2 spinners.

 

[Flem274*]

i for one can't wait for his 104* coming in at 123/5 in the first test against Australia in the year 2040 (our next scheduled test iirc)