The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[mr_mister]

Botham's ODI exploits were average at best

 

[mr_mister]

I'd do a straight swap Botham for Fairbrother there, you've got enough bowlers

 

[Red]

Oh yeh apologies, didnt realise it was ODIs

 

[Red]

Which three countries, if combined, do you guys think would produce the best ODI XI?

I'd go with oz, pak and the saffers...something like :

1. Gilchrist wk
2. Anwar
3. Ponting c
4. Amla
5. ABD
6. Kallis
7. Afridi
8. Pollock
9. Akram
10. Ajmal/Saqqy
11. Younis

So many more combinations, Hayden, Warner, Inzy, Abbas, Razzak, Donald, McGrath, Malik and so on. Could make 3 or 4 top world class teams from those groups of players

Aus, WIs and Pak

Adam Gilchrist
Shane Watson
Viv Richards
Ricky Ponting
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Andrew Symonds
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Joel Garner
Glenn McGrath

 

[jimmy101]

A collection of teams from Australia, India & England featuring players who, for one reason or another, didn't get much of a go at Test match level.

AUSTRALIA

Jamie Cox
Martin Love
Stuart Law*
Brad Hodge
Jamie Siddons
David Hussey
Chris Hartley+
Ian Harvey
Andrew Bichel
Peter McIntyre
Nathan Bracken

Michael Bevan/Michael Di Venuto/Dene Hills/Jimmy Maher/Tom Moody/Tony Dodemaide/Clint McKay/Adam Dale/Damien Wright/Wade Seccombe/Darren Berry

INDIA

Sadagoppan Ramesh
Amol Muzumdar
Vinod Kambli*
Ajay Sharma
Subramaniam Badrinath
Sridharan Sriram
Pankaj Dharmani+
Sairaj Bahutule
Ashish Zaidi
Utpal Chatterjee
Prashant Vaidya

Sridharan Sharath/Rohan Gavaskar/Jacob Martin/Hamang Badani/Sujith Somasunder/Mithun Manhas/Jai Prakash Yadav/Dodda Ganesh/Robin Smith/Murali Kartik

ENGLAND

Mal Loye
Michael Carberry
James Hildreth
Neil Fairbrother
Ali Brown
Chris Adams
James Foster+
Glen Chapple*
Shaun Udal
Simon Jones
Peter Martin

Nick Knight/Ed Joyce/Aftab Habib/Ed Smith/Steve James/Ronnie Irani/Mark Ealham/Martin McCague/Boyd Rankin/Ed Giddins/Martin Bicknell/Graham Onions/James Tredwell

 

[AndrewB]

I'd do a straight swap Botham for Fairbrother there, you've got enough bowlers

I'd keep Botham (his ODI bowling figures were pretty decent) and lose one of the NZ bowlers, otherwise it's a pretty long tail.

 

[oblongballs]

Aus, WIs and Pak

Adam Gilchrist
Shane Watson
Viv Richards
Ricky Ponting
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Andrew Symonds
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Joel Garner
Glenn McGrath

Pretty good stuff but no idea how Symonds can be in there.

Also never believe in an ODI side without Waqar.

Solid other than that, although if there is going to be a Pakistani at 5, shouldnt it be Yousuf or Inzy?

 

[oblongballs]

A combined NZ/Aus XI would be interesting for ODIs:

1. B. McCullum
2. D. Warner
3. R. Ponting c
4. K. Williamson
5. M. Hussey
6. A. Gilchrist wk
7. D. Vettori
8. R. Hadlee
9. S. Warne
10. B. Lee
11. G. Mcgrath

Again, there could be different combos, with Gilly opening and one of BM or Warner being dropped, with the likes of Gillespie, Lillee, Johnson or Starc coming into the bowling line up and Taylor, Waugh, Bevan coming into the batting line up.

 

[Starfighter]

No Bond?

 

[srbhkshk]

A Glichrist
S Watson
R Ponting
K Williamson
M Hussey
M Bevan
A Symonds
R Hadlee
S Warne
B Lee
G McGrath


Don't think any NZer apart from Williamson/Hadlee have a legit place in the team, Bond is a fair shout, but If I wanted an injury prone pacer I'd rather take Stark for the left arm variety.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'd probably take Starc ahead of one of Hadle/Lee tbh.

 

[Red]

Pretty good stuff but no idea how Symonds can be in there.

Also never believe in an ODI side without Waqar.

Solid other than that, although if there is going to be a Pakistani at 5, shouldnt it be Yousuf or Inzy?

Have we already had this conversation about Symonds? Dunno, but he goes into any ODI XI I am picking, even a world XI. Brutal bat, handy bowler and the best fielder I've seen.

Abbas was a true early era ODI batting great. His average and SR were beyond the pale for the era he played in. One of the true greats.

Waqar could displace McGrath, Garner or Wasim and you wouldnt lose much, I agree. I'd prefer the three I have already, just. Watson and Symonds more than capable of bowling ten between them.

 

[Red]

A Glichrist
S Watson
R Ponting
K Williamson
M Hussey
M Bevan
A Symonds
R Hadlee
S Warne
B Lee
G McGrath

A team to take you on:

M.Hayden
M.Waugh
D.Jones
M.Crowe
R.Taylor
B.McCullum +
C.Cairns
D.Vettori
M.Starc
D.Lillee
S.Bond

 

[srbhkshk]

Is Brad Hogg a contender for Australian loi team in sc? Has a very decent record and adds value with batting as well.

 

[oblongballs]

No Bond?

Not over Lee, McGrath or Hadlee.

 

[oblongballs]

Have we already had this conversation about Symonds? Dunno, but he goes into any ODI XI I am picking, even a world XI. Brutal bat, handy bowler and the best fielder I've seen.

Abbas was a true early era ODI batting great. His average and SR were beyond the pale for the era he played in. One of the true greats.

Waqar could displace McGrath, Garner or Wasim and you wouldnt lose much, I agree. I'd prefer the three I have already, just. Watson and Symonds more than capable of bowling ten between them.

Oops, just realised you had Watson in there as well...Symond and Watson are capable, most definitely but great teams are made of more than just capable players. Those are odd picks considering what you have left behind. I think they'd be 3rd or 4th squad kin of players with the type of talent available in the teams you were picking from.

Also, I can't argue with Abbas being an ODI great, see a previous post of mine about just how underrated an ODI batsman he was. I was lucky enough to see his fluid stroke play and rotation of the strike first hand. My only issue is he is too far removed from his best position, so why not pick someone like Yousuf or Inzy who were better lower middle order bats.

 

[Red]

Oops, just realised you had Watson in there as well...Symond and Watson are capable, most definitely but great teams are made of more than just capable players. Those are odd picks considering what you have left behind.

Probably the other option I'd have is to include Imran at the expense of Symonds. I'd gain a lot in bowling but lose a lot in batting power down the order. I'd honestly prefer Symonds.

I'm more than happy with Watson taking the bulk of the 10 overs anyway, he was a very good ODI bowler, great variations in the middle and late overs of an innings.

 

[stephen]

Symonds is so underrated as a player and I think it's possibly because his career was relatively short. But he had so many incredible innings and struck at a modern strike rate before the T20 era while maintaining a 40 average. The one weakness in his record was his record in Australia, where he averaged less than 30.

 

[marc71178]

The problem is trying to shoehorn him into a side as something he wasn't. He's nowhere near the top echelon of batsmen who he should be competing with for a slot in any ATG side so people are trying to call him an all rounder when in reality his bowling was just meh.

 

[Red]

The problem is trying to shoehorn him into a side as something he wasn't. He's nowhere near the top echelon of batsmen who he should be competing with for a slot in any ATG side so people are trying to call him an all rounder when in reality his bowling was just meh.

As someone to come in at 6 or 7, you have two options. You can have a Bevan type, or a Symonds type. I disagree so strongly with the argument that he isn't in the top echelon of batsmen. I can't think of many players I'd prefer to come in to finish an innings with 5-15 overs left. Symonds IS the man for that situation. Which puts him clearly in the top echelon.

I'm not gonna defend his bowling as it clearly isn't ATG standard, but it was tidy, maybe a bit meh, but it was effective and did a job. I wouldn't select him in an ATG team as the sole fifth bowler anyhow.

His fielding is another thing, but I've said enough how much I rated him. He was the GOAT imo.