The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[oblongballs]

A Pakistan all time ODI XI

1. S. Anwar
2. S. Afridi
3. Z. Abbas (possibly the most underrated ODI batsman of all time, his 100 odd chasing in Sydney is one of THE ODI innings)
4. J. Miandad
5. I. Haq
6. M. Yousuf
7. K. Akmal wk
8. I. Khan c
9. W. Akram
10. S. Ajmal
11. W. Younis

Could see Razzak, Azhar, Saqlain, Mushy and many others in there. As stacked a possible squad as Australia.

A South Africa XI -

1. G. Smith c
2. H. Amla
3. G. Kirsten
4. A.B. de Villiers
5. J. Kallis
6. M. Boucher wk
7. L. Klusener
8. S. Pollock
9. Mkhaya Ntini
10. A. Donald
11. I. Tahir

 

[mr_mister]

I'd replace Ajmal with Shoaib


Afridi took 400 wickets bowling spin so you've got that base covered, also Ajmal chucked it

 

[Starfighter]

Look, let me spell it out for you - Ashwin has had a limited career where huge amounts of his career have been played on turning Asian tracks, in an age where the batsmen are not as good against spin. HIs away record shows a big drop in form away. Singh has almost a 3rd or more of his wickets away from home, in a career of 400 wickets.

Ashwin: Home 22.68 20/6 Away 31.75 6/1

Harby: Home 28.76 18/4 Away 38.90 7/1

Ashwin clearly has the superior record, home and away. You are dead wrong there.

beyond simply the stats, he was a better, more controlled bowler. Some of you are too obsessed with numbers, they only tell part of the story. It is is remarkable to believe Ashwin would be in an Indian all time XI for tests not having done as much as Singh or even Bedi, who is in terms of skills, probably the best I've seen from India.

Thats all on that. But like I said, I can somewhat understand Ashwins selection, as he brings additional prowess with the bats and may compliment Kumble well.

Actually, I would say that ignoring averages Ashwin is the more skilled bowler. He flights the ball much better, spins it more and has better variations.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Perfectly fine if you don't want to pick Ashwin on the basis of his overseas record, but Harby was garbage away too. Pick Chandra or Bedi instead. Harbhajan wasn't close to their level.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Among Indian spinners I'd say the tiers go:

1) Kumble Chandra Bedi
2) Ashwin Gupte Prasanna Bhajji
3) Jaddu Mankad Doshi Venkat
4) Maninder Raju Mishra

 

[mr_mister]

interesting. So out of the quartet Venkat is the clear worst? common opinion amongst indian cricket fans?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Comfortably. The rest of the quartet were genuinely excellent overseas bowlers.

 

[marc71178]

Look, let me spell it out for you - Ashwin has had a limited career where huge amounts of his career have been played on turning Asian tracks, in an age where the batsmen are not as good against spin. HIs away record shows a big drop in form away. Singh has almost a 3rd or more of his wickets away from home, in a career of 400 wickets.

beyond simply the stats, he was a better, more controlled bowler. Some of you are too obsessed with numbers, they only tell part of the story. It is is remarkable to believe Ashwin would be in an Indian all time XI for tests not having done as much as Singh or even Bedi, who is in terms of skills, probably the best I've seen from India.

Thats all on that. But like I said, I can somewhat understand Ashwins selection, as he brings additional prowess with the bats and may compliment Kumble well.

Look, let me spell it out for you - you're wrong, again.

 

[Red]

Look, let me spell it out for you - Ashwin has had a limited career where huge amounts of his career have been played on turning Asian tracks, in an age where the batsmen are not as good against spin. HIs away record shows a big drop in form away. Singh has almost a 3rd or more of his wickets away from home, in a career of 400 wickets.

Look, let me spell it out for you:

Harbhajan 3.1 wickets per away test.

Ashwin 4.2 wickets per away test.

Ashwin has a better record in Aust (although they are both pretty dire here), Bangladesh, England and SL. The only place Harbhajan has a marginally better record is in WI. And Ashwin is SIGNIFICANTLY better at home. So if you want to criticise Ashwin's away record, you better be brutal on Harbhajan's.

beyond simply the stats, he was a better, more controlled bowler. Some of you are too obsessed with numbers, they only tell part of the story.

Look, let me spell it out for you. Stats tell the story of how successful a bowler has been in each place, don't they? And stats say that Ashwin takes more wickets for less runs in most places than any other Indian spinner. And a bowler taking more wickets for less runs generally gives his team an opportunity to win tests. And players who give their teams chances to win tests generally make ATG teams.

Ashwin has won 58% of the tests he's played in. Harbhajan won 40% of the tests he played in.

It is is remarkable to believe Ashwin would be in an Indian all time XI for tests not having done as much as Singh or even Bedi, who is in terms of skills, probably the best I've seen from India.

Bedi? Ashwin has 292 wickets already from only 52 tests. Bedi took 266 from 67 tests. How has he not done as much?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Bedi? Ashwin has 292 wickets already from only 52 tests. Bedi took 266 from 67 tests. How has he not done as much?

Bedi's overseas record is far far better.

 

[Red]

Bedi's overseas record is far far better.

How so?

 

[Zinzan]

England New Zealand All-time combined ODI XI

Ist XI

Marcus Trescothick
Brendon McCullum*+
Joe Root
Kevin Pietersen
Martin Crowe
Chris Cairns 6
Andrew Flintoff 3
Richard Hadlee 1
Daniel Vettori 4
Shane Bond 2
Derek Underwood 5


2nd XI

Martin Guptill
Glenn Turner
Kane Williamson
David Gower*
Ross Taylor
Jos Buttler+
Jacob Oram 4
Graeme Swann 5
Darren Gough 2
Bob Willis 1
Ewen Chatfield 3

3rd XI

Nathan Astle 7
Nick Knight
Graeme Hick 8
Eion Morgan
Alec Stewart*+
Ian Botham 4
Chris Harris 6
Gavin Larsen 5
Kyle Mills 2
Trent Boult 1
Chris Pringle 3

Liking the bowling depth in the 3rd

 

[Lillian Thomson]

All time England XI with an odd man out.

Hutton
Hobbs
Radley
Compton
Hammond
Botham
Knott
Snow
Trueman
Laker
Underwood

 

[oblongballs]

Which three countries, if combined, do you guys think would produce the best ODI XI?

I'd go with oz, pak and the saffers...something like :

1. Gilchrist wk
2. Anwar
3. Ponting c
4. Amla
5. ABD
6. Kallis
7. Afridi
8. Pollock
9. Akram
10. Ajmal/Saqqy
11. Younis

So many more combinations, Hayden, Warner, Inzy, Abbas, Razzak, Donald, McGrath, Malik and so on. Could make 3 or 4 top world class teams from those groups of players

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah, that's a great combo. Klusener could get in there too.

 

[srbhkshk]

India and Pak could go -

Tendulkar
Anwar
Kohli
Inzy
Yuvi
Dhoni(+)(vc)
Kapil
Imran(c)
Wasim
Saqlain
Waqar

 

[OverratedSanity]

Saqlain's a lock.

 

[srbhkshk]

Saqlain's a lock.

You are right, for some reason I thought his average was 26.

 

[vcs]

Hope we're not picking these joint India-Pak teams with the WC in mind.

 

[Red]

England New Zealand All-time combined ODI XI

Ist XI

Marcus Trescothick
Brendon McCullum*+
Joe Root
Kevin Pietersen
Martin Crowe
Chris Cairns 6
Andrew Flintoff 3
Richard Hadlee 1
Daniel Vettori 4
Shane Bond 2
Derek Underwood 5


2nd XI

Martin Guptill
Glenn Turner
Kane Williamson
David Gower*
Ross Taylor
Jos Buttler+
Jacob Oram 4
Graeme Swann 5
Darren Gough 2
Bob Willis 1
Ewen Chatfield 3

3rd XI

Nathan Astle 7
Nick Knight
Graeme Hick 8
Eion Morgan
Alec Stewart*+
Ian Botham 4
Chris Harris 6
Gavin Larsen 5
Kyle Mills 2
Trent Boult 1
Chris Pringle 3

Liking the bowling depth in the 3rd

Botham being in the 3rd XI behind Cairns, Flintoff and Oram as all-rounders doesn't make much sense to me.