The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Second Spitter]

I just looked up his batting record......and I am gobsmacked.

 

[mr_mister]

But murali at 9 is a little high ha

 

[Himannv]

Yeah, Herath should probably bat ahead of him.

 

[jimmy101]

Giving an All-time India team a crack:

Sunil Gavaskar*
Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
MS Dhoni+
Vinoo Mankad
Kapil Dev
Javagal Srinath
Bishan Bedi
Subhash Gupte


Went for Viru over Merchant because Merchant is a bit too much of an unknown quantity for me. Yes, I know he averaged 70 or so in FC, but I'm not sure exactly how strong the Ranji Trophy was in those days. As for Viru, well, we all know what he's capable of. Even Sunny might open up his shoulders a bit when batting with Virender.

Dravid & Sachin pick themselves, really. The middle order threw upon me some tough choices what with Mohinder Amarnath, Viswanath, Tiger Pataudi, Umrigar, Azharuddin, Laxman, Ganguly, Kohli (jury is still out on Virat) & even Vinod Kambli all crossing my mind. Eventually I opted for Vijay Hazare, who really carried the weight of Indian fans' dreams on his shoulders throughout his career (Sunil & Sachin could relate) & encapsulated those Indian batting trademarks. He was kind of like the VVS Laxman of his time, getting India out of trouble a fair bit.

I picked MS Dhoni for the 'keepers role because I couldn't see any reason not to. He's a great batsman, especially in ODIs, and it's not like he's a part time keeper. He also would bring leadership qualities to the team.

Kapil & Srinath I believe are India best pacemen at Test level. Zaheer, Singh & Nissar aren't far off though. Finally I have gone for a spin triad of Bedi-Mankad-Gupte. I have two left armers in Bedi & Mankad, plus the legbreak googlies of mystery-spinner, Gupte. Chandrasekhar, Prasanna, Venkat & Kumble were all really hard to leave out, and too be honest, anyone of them could slot into this side if you asked me to name this side again on a different day.

 

[watson]

Vinoo and Bedi both ambled up to the wicket and basically bowled the same sort of slow-left-arm stuff. So for the sake of variety Kumble, Chandra, Prasanna, Amar Singh or Zaheer might be worth including.

I’m also a Kohli fan, but still like your team as Hazare is an ideal bat to hold down the middle order.

 

[oblongballs]

You say all this, yet in your post above you picked Harbhajan as your spinner. Both Harbhajan and Ashwin struggled in Australia, but Harbhajan was worse here. Harbhajan has a worse record in England than Ashwin, as well as a worse record in SL, India and the WIs.

So if you're gonna criticise my selection of Ashwin based on his away record, at least choose guys in your team who have better away records than Ashwin. Surely.



Nissar was India's fastest bowler ever, as well as having immense skill, and complements Kapil and Srinath better than anyone else I can think of. I have no qualms with Zaheer as the third quick either, really.

Harby has over 400 test wickets, so yes,, he gets picked ahead of one trick Ashwin, until Ashwin ends with a career that was as prolific. But that selection is ok-ish, I just cant understand Khan out in favour of a novice.

That's a really good team. I wonder if it would beat an Indian AT team. Having the most prolific bowler of all time and Herath + Vaas is pretty amazing.

It would be tight. Indias batting has a slight edge but Lankas bowling is better, both in the spin department and with Vaas. Would be a great test with a lot of runs scored I think.

 

[the big bambino]

, I just cant understand Khan out in favour of a novice.

He explained it to you.

 

[oblongballs]

Considering we have been making a lot of test sides, I thought I would put together an England all time ODI side....which will be tough

1. G. Gooch
2. A. Hales
3. J. Root
4. K. Pietersen
5. E. Morgan c
6. J. Buttler wk
7. A. Flintoff
8. I. Botham
9. G. Swann
10. D. Gough
11. J. Anderson

The likes of Ali, Stokes and Rashid just miss out.

An Australian XI is more all consuming:

1. A. Gilchrist wk
2. D. Warner
3. R. Ponting c
4. M. Clarke
5. M. Hussey
6. S. Watson
7. M. Bevan
8. S. Warne
9. B. Lee
10. D. Lillee
11. G. Mcgrath

 

[mr_mister]

Hick in for Morgan

 

[Starfighter]

Harby has over 400 test wickets, so yes,, he gets picked ahead of one trick Ashwin, until Ashwin ends with a career that was as prolific. But that selection is ok-ish, I just cant understand Khan out in favour of a novice.

Ashwin's taken more five fors in 52 tests than Harbhajan did in 103, and has as many wickets as the latter took in 18 more matches. If he's a one trick trick bowler, does that make Harbhajan a zero trick bowler?

 

[Red]

Harby has over 400 test wickets, so yes,, he gets picked ahead of one trick Ashwin, until Ashwin ends with a career that was as prolific. But that selection is ok-ish

So initially you criticised Ashwin's away record, then when I pointed out Harbhajan's away record is significantly worse, you mention that Harbhajan has 400 wickets as your criteria. Ashwin has near enough to 300, and he takes significantly more wickets per test than Harbhajan did.

Then the little disclaimer that my selection is "ok-ish", cos you kind of realised you were wrong. lol

 

[vitalogy83]

Really loving this team. My top 10 would be the same actually, but would sub in Herath for Fernando (SL decks, remember).

On the other hand, Nuwan Zoysa & Somachandra de Silva are both decent shouts. They probably don't deserve a place in the first XI, but both of those guys would make my all-time SL extended squad.

Heck of a team..you do get a bit teary when you see these names and the mob we have now.

Agree on putting Herath in for Fernando. Mathews can do the 3rd seamers job. Or Maybe Ranatunga with his gentle medium trundling if we want to get a bit exotic.

 

[vitalogy83]

Having a crack at SL ODI XI

Jayasuriya
Dilshan
Sangakkara (wk)
Aravinda
M Jayawardene (C)
Ranatunga
Mathews
Vaas
Malinga
Murali
A Mendis

 

[Second Spitter]

Hick in for Morgan

Lamb for Hick

 

[mr_mister]

I'll never forget Hicks three ODI tons in the 99 tri series vs Australia and Sri Lanka

Made Murali look so easy to bat against

 

[jimmy101]

Vinoo and Bedi both ambled up to the wicket and basically bowled the same sort of slow-left-arm stuff. So for the sake of variety Kumble, Chandra, Prasanna, Amar Singh or Zaheer might be worth including.

I’m also a Kohli fan, but still like your team as Hazare is an ideal bat to hold down the middle order.

Yeah, I would like a spin attack with as much variety as possible. I think starting Prasanna ahead of Bedi would be pretty potent (that gives us a LS, OS, SLA spin trio).

 

[jimmy101]

Heck of a team..you do get a bit teary when you see these names and the mob we have now.

Agree on putting Herath in for Fernando. Mathews can do the 3rd seamers job. Or Maybe Ranatunga with his gentle medium trundling if we want to get a bit exotic.

I'm a huge Arjuna fan, but his bowling would be almost useless in an ATG scenario. Mathews gets the AR spot for me mainly because of his batting, his bowling probably wouldn't be very effective either. Apart from Mathews, the only other SL AR who bowls pace worth considering would be Ravi Ratnayeke. However, Mathews' numbers are a little better overall. Plus, yeah, you could potentially put on Arjuna, Aravinda or Sanath to try and eek out a wicket if necessary.

 

[vitalogy83]

I'm a huge Arjuna fan, but his bowling would be almost useless in an ATG scenario. Mathews gets the AR spot for me mainly because of his batting, his bowling probably wouldn't be very effective either. Apart from Mathews, the only other SL AR who bowls pace worth considering would be Ravi Ratnayeke. However, Mathews' numbers are a little better overall. Plus, yeah, you could potentially put on Arjuna, Aravinda or Sanath to try and eek out a wicket if necessary.

Yea there are enough options in that line up if a couple of overs need to be extracted...Mathews's actual bowling record is probably worse than how good a bowler he is.. He isn't great but he's not terrible either as a 3rd seamer.

Sanath has a truckton of wickets to his name so he's a genuine option too. Albeit more in the LOI format.

If his career progresses well enough I think someone like Asela Gunaratne could challenge Mathews for a spot in this team in about 5-7 years time in LOI. Arguably our best LOI player in recent times.

 

[jimmy101]

Admittedly I haven't seen Asela Gunaratne play yet. He's 31, so he's got some catching up to do to surpass Mathews, but perhaps he might end up having a Michael Hussey, late bloomer, type of career.

 

[oblongballs]

Ashwin's taken more five fors in 52 tests than Harbhajan did in 103, and has as many wickets as the latter took in 18 more matches. If he's a one trick trick bowler, does that make Harbhajan a zero trick bowler?

So initially you criticised Ashwin's away record, then when I pointed out Harbhajan's away record is significantly worse, you mention that Harbhajan has 400 wickets as your criteria. Ashwin has near enough to 300, and he takes significantly more wickets per test than Harbhajan did.

Then the little disclaimer that my selection is "ok-ish", cos you kind of realised you were wrong. lol

Look, let me spell it out for you - Ashwin has had a limited career where huge amounts of his career have been played on turning Asian tracks, in an age where the batsmen are not as good against spin. HIs away record shows a big drop in form away. Singh has almost a 3rd or more of his wickets away from home, in a career of 400 wickets.

beyond simply the stats, he was a better, more controlled bowler. Some of you are too obsessed with numbers, they only tell part of the story. It is is remarkable to believe Ashwin would be in an Indian all time XI for tests not having done as much as Singh or even Bedi, who is in terms of skills, probably the best I've seen from India.

Thats all on that. But like I said, I can somewhat understand Ashwins selection, as he brings additional prowess with the bats and may compliment Kumble well.