The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[stephen]

I'm trying to think of a better intersection of ATG players than that 1979 game. Other than Kallicharran and Murray, the other 9 players are widely regarded as some of the best players in history.

Chappell and Border are probably two of the 5 greatest Australian bats. Greenidge and Haynes are the two best WI openers, Richards was the best ever WI batsman. Lillee one of Australia's top two quicks. Roberts, Garner and Holding are behind only Marshall and Ambrose for the West Indies.

Pretty hard go past that lot.

 

[stephen]

Kirsten
Hayden
Ponting
Kallis
S Waugh
M Waugh
Gilchrist
Pollock
Warne
Donald
McGrath

A lot of combined test centuries and wickets in that XI

Was there any game where we had McGrath, Warne, Steyn and Pollock? Assuming Gilchrist, Ponting, Kallis and Hayden played that would be an almighty XI.

 

[vcs]

Was there any game where we had McGrath, Warne, Steyn and Pollock? Assuming Gilchrist, Ponting, Kallis and Hayden played that would be an almighty XI.

I don't think Steyn played Australia till 2008. I guess his first few Tests against England in 2004 weren't great and they went back to Nel, etc. for a couple of years.

 

[Second Spitter]

Australia vs West Indies 1979

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
G Chappell
Border (c)
Hughes
Murray (wk)
Roberts
Garner
Holding
Lillee

12th: Thompson

It must have been a hard decision not picking Wiener and Laird to open.

 

[oblongballs]

Dale Steyn?

Dont mind your WI side, most people include Headley over Lloyd but I dont mind Lloyd's selection.

Would include Hutton over Cook in the Eng XI.

Would not have Hayden in my side, would prefer Simpson, Lawry, Morris or Trumper (or even Taylor or Slater).

Would probably include SF Barnes, Statham or Willis over Anderson.

Steyn would be 13th man for me.

I can't really make a WI team without their greatest captain and a damn fine batsman too.

A handful of other opening options for England but Cook at his best was dogged, had an eye for big scores and a sound technique.

Hayden is the perfect option as he could up the rate when he felt like it and you need someone like that. Was also more consistent than other big hitting test openers too.

Willis is my 12th man but it is impossible to leave out England's most prolific wicket taker for guys who played against limited opposition in a very different period of the game or guys who were simply around for a very short period of time.

Don’t agree with the Aussie openers chosen above. As noted, think there are better options.

TOTAB must play ahead of Waugh or Chappell too.

Having watched all those players live, Chappell was the best batsman, Waugh the best fighter and the best captain. In my time of watching the game, he is second only to Lloyd. Couldn't pick AB above either of those guys.

I think these discussions just go to show the the variety and depth on offer from the games best teams.

 

[oblongballs]

My Pakistan Test XI:

1. S. Anwar
2. H. Muhammad
3. Y. Khan
4. J. Miandad
5. M. Yousuf
6. I. Ul Haq
7. I. Khan c
8. W. Akram
9. W. Bari wk
10. A. Qadir
11. W. Younis

12th man Zaheer Abbas. A fine batsman to watch but Younis was the better run getter in a lesser side.

 

[fredfertang]

My Pakistan Test XI:

1. S. Anwar
2. H. Muhammad
3. Y. Khan
4. J. Miandad
5. M. Yousuf
6. I. Ul Haq
7. I. Khan c
8. W. Akram
9. W. Bari wk
10. A. Qadir
11. W. Younis

12th man Zaheer Abbas. A fine batsman to watch but Younis was the better run getter in a lesser side.

Almost picks itself that side - only thing I'd be tempted to do is include Sarfraz instead of Wasim Bari and then pick Fazal instead of Yousuf - would be a bit of a tail, but with that attack would that really matter?

 

[jimmy101]

Fine Pakistan XI. Mushtaq Mohammad could also slot into that side if the match was played in Pakistan. Saqlain Mushtaq is also worthy of consideration.

 

[Second Spitter]

I'm not sure what criteria people are using in picking Abdul Qadir over Saqlain but its not statistics.

Lets begin with the premise the former averaged 47-odd outside Pakistan versus 30-odd for Saqi.

 

[harsh.ag]

Saqlain's proclivity for making videos getting himself venerated by greats of the game are grounds for exclusion.

 

[Starfighter]

Arguments for Qadir generally go that he could bowl a ripping ball every now and then and that he bowled in an era with few spinners. Again impressions vs results.

 

[Second Spitter]

The Qadir legend is generally built around home Tests against countries where leg spin was a novelty, namely England and the WI.

Otoh, his record v. India is atrocious.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

1. G. Greenidge
2. D. Haynes
3. V. Richards
4. B. Lara
5. C. Lloyd c
6. G. Sobers
7. J. Dujon wk
8. M. Holding
9. M. Marshall
10. L. Gibbs
11. J. Garner

12th man, and I can not believe I am saying this, Everton Weekes.

I like to see Holding recognised because he's often overlooked. I can't say the same for Garner, especially with Ambrose available.

 

[Second Spitter]

I like to see Holding recognised because he's often overlooked. I can't say the same for Garner, especially with Ambrose available.

Garner edges Holding statistically. Also, Garner generally played the game without histrionics and wasn't as injury prone. I'd take Ambrose and Garner over Holding.

 

[AndrewB]

What's the best XI who all played in the same Test, but not necessarily for the same team (and not necessarily all at their peak at the time)?

Looking for a good pre-war XI, one option is Brisbane 1928:

Jack Hobbs
Herbert Sutcliffe
Don Bradman*
Wally Hammond
Bill Ponsford
Patsy Hendren
Jack Gregory
Maurice Tate
Bert Oldfield+
Harold Larwood
Clarrie Grimett

Or maybe the Bodyline Test, Adelaide 1933:

Bill Woodfull
Herbert Sutcliffe
Don Bradman*
Wally Hammond
Bill Ponsford
Stan McCabe
Les Ames+
Gubby Allen
Harold Larwood
Clarrie Grimmett
Bill O'Reilly

Pre WWI Tests tend to be short on pace bowlers - e.g. for Sheffield 1902 you end up with something like Trumper, Abel, Fry, Hill, Jackson, Armstrong, Noble, Hirst, Rhodes, Lilley, Barnes

 

[jimmy101]

Garner edges Holding statistically. Also, Garner generally played the game without histrionics and wasn't as injury prone. I'd take Ambrose and Garner over Holding.

As much as I love Holding, and feel like I should disapprove with this statement, I've gotta admit, the prospect of Ambrose & Garner blossoming in harness, new ball in hand, would be an assault to behold.

 

[mr_mister]

That brisbane 1928 side is awesome Andrew. Feels like cheating having Bradman and Hobbs together but hey if it happened once milk it

 

[watson]

It must have been a hard decision not picking Wiener and Laird to open.

Don’t knock Bruce Laird. Gutzy batsman.

 

[mr_mister]

Couldn't hit it off the square though. Mr no tons Laird was what Homer Simpson was to boxing. Just good at taking hits to the body and tiring the opposition out


And no I haven't seen any footage of him play

 

[AndrewB]

That brisbane 1928 side is awesome Andrew. Feels like cheating having Bradman and Hobbs together but hey if it happened once milk it

Hobbs carried on to the end of the 1930 series which would give you McCabe (among other options such as Woolley, Duleep, Fairfax, Leyland...) but you lose Jack Gregory (Brisbane 1928 was his last Test - and indeed match of any kind, due to injury - and Bradman's debut).