The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[srbhkshk]

If we were to go by Modern batting standards, then Sanath / Gilly / Bevan can't be selected and Tendulkar becomes questionable rather than certainty.

 

[AndrewB]

Wasn't he just a big drinker and gambler and we were more puritanical then?

Dunno if he (Sid Barnes) was a big drinker - I was thinking of the articles and books he wrote criticising his team-mates and ex team-mates, the "twelfth man incident", etc. Keith Miller, who was hardly a puritanical type, doesn't seem a huge fan of his behaviour in "Cricket from the Grandstand".

Plus, of course, he suffered from bipolar disorder and committed suicide.

 

[AndrewB]

Was Wes Hall a happy person?

Quoting Tom Graveney, "Wes Hall was a cheerful and sporting competitor who was never slow to applaud a decent shot by an opponent. It was his warm personality that helped him win a seat in the Barbados Parliament."

On Sid Barnes, he says "He was a moody man whose self-opinionated manner did not make him popular with some of his team-mates", though he does also say "He was given to eccentricity and whacky humour".

 

[mr_mister]

The Sid Barnes 12th man story sounds funny as ****

Sounds like a helluva character

 

[stephen]

Yeah the batting conditions in ODIs in the 90s were a world away from what they are now. Longer boundaries, more bowler-friendly conditions, both playing conditions and pitch conditions and of course a great number of all time great bowlers - Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, Pollock, McGrath, Wasim, Waqar and a number of others all ran riot during the era.

Compare that to the conditions modem batsmen face. The only ATG ODI bowler kicking around now is Starc.

 

[JBMAC]

Something to get your teeth into

Here is a Team whose members should be considered ATGs and a team that would give ANY Team you want to name a good run for their money.

1. Bob Barber (Eng)
2. Cammie Smith (WI)
3. Bob Simpson (Aust) (C)
4. Ken Barrington (Eng)
5. Alvin Kallicharan (WI)
6. Conrad Hunte (WI)
7. Jim Parks (Eng) (Wk)
8. Bishen Bedi/ Fred Titmus ( Ind/Eng)
9.Garth LeRoux (SA)
10.Bruce Reid (Aust)
11.Courtney Walsh

12th Man. Rohan Kanhai/Andrew Symonds (WI/ Aust)

Put a lot of thought into this team .Shown in batting order. Spin option would depend on conditions and so would 12th man with both being brilliant in the field.

 

[AndrewB]

Funny, I was thinking only this morning that Kanhai must be one of the best players who never really gets a mention in ATG teams - and now he doesn't even quite get into this one. Is Cammie Smith really worthy of a place ahead of him?

I hope you'd adjust the batting order if you picked Bedi instead of Titmus...

 

[fredfertang]

I wonder if JB meant Collie Smith rather than Cammie?

 

[jimmy101]

Wonderful team JBMAC, really deserving of alot of discussion. But I too would like to hear why Cammie Smith gets in before Kanhai? Especially when there's Simpson & Hunte in the side, who are both celebrated opening bats.

 

[oblongballs]

Very interesting thread and just to get started myself, I'd like to name my all time XIs for some of the top sides, sides I believe to the best at least.

England All Time Test XI -

1. J. Hobbs
2. A. Cook
3. W. Hammond
4. K. Barrington
5. D. Gower
6. K. Pietersen
7. I. Botham
8. A. Knott wk
9. D. Underwood
10. F. Trueman
11. J. Anderson

12th man Bob Willis, can be added in if there is no need for the extra batsman.

Australia All Time Test XI -

1. M. Hayden
2. J. Langer
3. D. Bradman
4. R. Ponting
5. G. Chappell
6. S. Waugh c
7. K. Miller
8. A. Gilchrist wk
9. S. Warne
10. D. Lillee
11. G. McGrath

12th man Richie Benaud in times when a second spinner may be needed.

South African All Time Test XI -

1. G. Smith c
2. H. Amla
3. G. Pollock
4. J. Kallis
5. AB. de Villiers
6. D. Nourse
7. M. Boucher wk
8. A. Faulkner
9. S. Pollock
10. M. Ntini
11. A. Donald

12th man Hugh Tayfield.

I will conclude with a might West Indian XI and then move on to Pakistan at a later date -

1. G. Greenidge
2. D. Haynes
3. V. Richards
4. B. Lara
5. C. Lloyd c
6. G. Sobers
7. J. Dujon wk
8. M. Holding
9. M. Marshall
10. L. Gibbs
11. J. Garner

12th man, and I can not believe I am saying this, Everton Weekes.

 

[srbhkshk]

10. M. Ntini

 

[Red]

Dale Steyn?

Dont mind your WI side, most people include Headley over Lloyd but I dont mind Lloyd's selection.

Would include Hutton over Cook in the Eng XI.

Would not have Hayden in my side, would prefer Simpson, Lawry, Morris or Trumper (or even Taylor or Slater).

Would probably include SF Barnes, Statham or Willis over Anderson.

 

[Burgey]

Don’t agree with the Aussie openers chosen above. As noted, think there are better options.

TOTAB must play ahead of Waugh or Chappell too.

 

[AndrewB]

What's the best XI who all played in the same Test, but not necessarily for the same team (and not necessarily all at their peak at the time)?

A few suggestions:

- Headingley 1948
Len Hutton
Arthur Morris
Don Bradman*
Denis Compton
Neil Harvey
Keith Miller
Godfrey Evans+
Ray Lindwall
Alec Bedser
Jim Laker
Bill Johnston

- Port-of-Spain 1955
Arthur Morris
Jeff Stollmeyer
Neil Harvey
Everton Weekes
Clyde Walcott+
Keith Miller
Gary Sobers
Richie Benaud*
Ray Lindwall
Bill Johnston
Sonny Ramadhin

- Faisalabad 1986
Gordon Greenidge
Desmond Haynes
Viv Richards
Javed Miandad
Richie Richardson
Imran Khan*
Jeff Dujon+
Wasim Akram
Malcolm Marshall
Abdul Qadir
Courtney Walsh

 

[mr_mister]

Australia-South Africa on the 02 tour could yield a gem of a combined XI

 

[mr_mister]

Kirsten
Hayden
Ponting
Kallis
S Waugh
M Waugh
Gilchrist
Pollock
Warne
Donald
McGrath

A lot of combined test centuries and wickets in that XI

 

[stephen]

1992 Australia vs West Indies.

Haynes
Taylor
Boon
Lara
S Waugh
Border (c)
Healy (wk)
Warne
Bishop
Ambrose
Walsh

Or later in 1995

Slater
Taylor (c)
Boon
Lara
S Waugh
Richardson
Healy (wk)
Warne
Ambrose
McGrath
Walsh

The first team's batting is better, the second team's bowling is better.

 

[stephen]

Australia vs West Indies 1979

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
G Chappell
Border (c)
Hughes
Murray (wk)
Roberts
Garner
Holding
Lillee

12th: Thompson

 

[the big bambino]

Not sure about Sid Barnes in the Tiger Moth XI, since he seemed to spend most of his time falling out with people. Compton, Edrich and Godfrey Evans are also contenders for that XI.

You could strengthen the Grumpy XI with Lillee and Miandad.

Wasn't he just a big drinker and gambler and we were more puritanical then?

There was the toy bat incident. Barnes seems like he had a sense of fun. Both intentional and non witting. He swapped copies with Cardus to bemuse their editors one time.

When he was a colt playing first grade his side played O'Reilly's team. Apparently the then 16yo Barnes made his way to the opposition's dressing room and found O'Reilly out of the shower and dressed in a white towel. He stuck out his hand to congratulate Tiger for being "the best bowler he's faced in his life" then he walked out. That's some cheek, and bloody funny. He opens for Gower's team.

 

[stephen]

Actually, substitute Hughes for Kallicharran in that last XI.