*** Official*** South Africa in England 2017

[Gnske]

I can't wait to see Crap CW "I can judge every player on a 5 seconds glance at a stat" Poster get banned so we can see less mindless drivel on the Forums. It would make CricketWeb a must-visit forum.

Lmao how is mindless drivel even real, just close your eyes haha.

I had no idea the Stoneman family had an official account here though, an eye opener.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I dont mind him thinking they need an extra bowler if the pitch will easier to bat on, but surely there are better ones than Dawson for that purpose.

Yea, Dawson is the answer to a question that doesn't exist.

It's hard to imagine given the history of cricket how everyone was missing the importance of having a 6th bowler, one who is weaker than the first five by a distance.

Old Trafford ain't going to be that flat, and if it is then Dawson will add nothing whatsoever. I'd rather have Malan roll his arm over if it is flat, personally.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Lmao how is mindless drivel even real, just close your eyes haha.

I had no idea the Stoneman family had an official account here though, an eye opener.

Cricinfo's comment section and Pak Passion are over there. Might be a bit more your level.

 

[Starfighter]

I can see where Bayliss' strategy is coming from. After all, all the most successful teams in the past stuffed their side full of no-rounders right... ?

 

[_Ed_]

Saqlain, Kumble and Herath the only ones who've had decent tours in the last 20 years or so I think. Even most wrist spinners have had a torrid time tbh.

Considering the batsmen he was bowling to, Vettori's 2001 tour wasn't bad - 13 wickets in three tests @ 33.84. Also 10 @ 34.10 three years later.

 

[Gnske]

Cricinfo's comment section and Pak Passion are over there. Might be a bit more your level.

I highly recommend the ignore button if you can't handle criticism of mediocre players on a highly opinionated site my good friend.

 

[JRC67]

I can see where Bayliss' strategy is coming from. After all, all the most successful teams in the past stuffed their side full of no-rounders right... ?

I don't think there has ever been a team with either:
a as many high quality all rounders
b such a weakness in top order batting
c such a weakness in spin bowling resources
For me two of the all rounders and the keeper are better bats than just about all the contenders for the 5 position. Purely on likelihood to make a decent score Malan should be batting at 8, which is a waste of a specialist bat. The question Bayliss needs to answer is will the extra runs from Malan compensate for the loss of runs from Ali batting that low. Last year Ali averaged 47 when batting in the top 7.

Saqlain Mushtaq must be having a lot of input in which spinner he thinks he can develop. None of the contenders for the spin berth are that convincing, be interesting to hear his views about who he thinks he can develop most. He's done a good job so far with Ali.

 

[Bijed]

I'd personally play exactly the same team at Old Trafford. I might be falling slightly into the 'never change a winning side' fallacy here, but everyone had an overall good game except:

- Jennings, but his 2nd innings knock showed that he might yet have what it takes and gets him one more chance. I do also wonder with him if, whilst I don't expect him to be a world-beater, he still stands to be decent but just happens to be Vernon Philander's bunny (a little bit like Warne/Cullinan)
- Malan, but I would never, ever drop someone after just one test even if it was an absolute shocker and it was ridiculous to select them in the first place (not that this applies to Malan)
- Broad, who hasn't had a particularly good series, but ever so slightly has the credit in the bank to be allowed this

 

[Furball]

Is there actually anyone in County Cricket who's banging the door down for Jennings' place?

 

[honestbharani]

Considering how many of the promising new England batsmen seem to be all rounders (either doubling up as bowlers or keepers), is it just possible that for this generation of new cricketers there, they feel less pressure when they have another skill to fall back on, which allows them to be free and bat instinctively thus helping them make more runs?

The ones who seem to make it as specialist bats just seem to be putting themselves under too much pressure. Your media never helps too.

 

[superkingdave]

Is there actually anyone in County Cricket who's banging the door down for Jennings' place?

5 of the top 10 runscorers in Div 1 are openers - Stoneman, Burns, Cook, Browne and Davies.

Browne has the best career record, but Cook should no plenty about him so there must be some reason he has never come into contention. Davies has only opened for half a season. Not sure on Burns, his record doesn't scream pick me given he plays half his games at the oval.

 

[marc71178]

If Alec Stewart hasn't been relentlessly pushing a Surrey player for England selection then you know he isn't good enough.

 

[wpdavid]

5 of the top 10 runscorers in Div 1 are openers - Stoneman, Burns, Cook, Browne and Davies.

Browne has the best career record, but Cook should no plenty about him so there must be some reason he has never come into contention. Davies has only opened for half a season. Not sure on Burns, his record doesn't scream pick me given he plays half his games at the oval.

As a Surrey man, I have to agree with you about Burns, although there has been a step up this season. Doubtless we'll find out one of these days.
Such a shame about how Hameed has gone this year. Also the young Yorkshire opener whose name escapes me. Lees maybe? Or was there another one? There's a part of me assumes that any batsman from that part of the country will automatically have a Huttonesque technique, although I suppose Lyth and Ballance have kind of put that one to rest.

 

[ImpatientLime]

hameed will be fine.

thought dropping him in the first place was a bit harsh. yes his form for lancs was poor but how often do you see a guy dropped off the back of his FC form when his most recent international form was so impressive?

 

[srbhkshk]

hameed will be fine.

thought dropping him in the first place was a bit harsh. yes his form for lancs was poor but how often do you see a guy dropped off the back of his FC form when his most recent international form was so impressive?

this is a bit tangential, but good performance against Indian bowling doesn't quite equate to good performance against other attacks for a lot of players.

 

[ImpatientLime]

this is a bit tangential, but good performance against Indian bowling doesn't quite equate to good performance against other attacks for a lot of players.

undoubtedly, but when do you hold him back to? and whilst he won't face that sort of challenge in india on the regular, it was still as alien can be for a young guy who's been brought up playing his cricket in rainy lancashire.

can't play him this summer, morkel, philander and radaba will be too much for him.
can't play him this winter, starc, cummins and hazlewood will be too much for him.

all the while we're watching jennings **** the place up with his god awful technique. of all the openers we've trialled since strauss he just looked the one more likely to make a real go of it.

 

[JRC67]

Considering how many of the promising new England batsmen seem to be all rounders (either doubling up as bowlers or keepers), is it just possible that for this generation of new cricketers there, they feel less pressure when they have another skill to fall back on, which allows them to be free and bat instinctively thus helping them make more runs?

The ones who seem to make it as specialist bats just seem to be putting themselves under too much pressure. Your media never helps too.

Listened to Stephen Croft a couple of months ago and he said 7 or 8 years ago players tended to specialise from 18 or 19. Now, partly because of T20, players recognise that being able to do both makes them more valuable and more likely to get a contract so young players carry on working on both batting and bowling. In the current England test team only Cook doesn't bowl in any format. Even the keeper was quite a useful medium pacer at 18 or 19. All the seamers around the squad can do a bit with the bat at times. It's conceivable that in the future we may field a whole team that could be nominally be termed all rounders. Until the advent of franchise cricket only a very small number of players could set themselves up for life. A young player who maximises their ability in all 3 disciplines can now earn enough to be set up for the future. There are a number of players in county cricket who are specialist batsmen in one format and bowlers in another.

 

[JRC67]

undoubtedly, but when do you hold him back to? and whilst he won't face that sort of challenge in india on the regular, it was still as alien can be for a young guy who's been brought up playing his cricket in rainy lancashire.

can't play him this summer, morkel, philander and radaba will be too much for him.
can't play him this winter, starc, cummins and hazlewood will be too much for him.

all the while we're watching jennings **** the place up with his god awful technique. of all the openers we've trialled since strauss he just looked the one more likely to make a real go of it.

He's been awful outside his off stump this season. He'll be back a better player within 18 months but needs a bit of time to work on his game at the moment.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Considering how many of the promising new England batsmen seem to be all rounders (either doubling up as bowlers or keepers), is it just possible that for this generation of new cricketers there, they feel less pressure when they have another skill to fall back on, which allows them to be free and bat instinctively thus helping them make more runs?

The ones who seem to make it as specialist bats just seem to be putting themselves under too much pressure. Your media never helps too.

It's a fair shout; I've heard the comms more than once say that Jonny Red enjoys contributing in two disciplines whenever it's been mooted he plays as a specialist bat.

Without checking, I'd guess he is one of the few top drawer keeper/batsmen (let's arbitrarily say players who average over or very close to 40) who score more runs with the gauntlets than without. Sanga, Walcott and Stewart all did far worse with the willow as keepers.

As a Surrey man, I have to agree with you about Burns, although there has been a step up this season. Doubtless we'll find out one of these days.
Such a shame about how Hameed has gone this year. Also the young Yorkshire opener whose name escapes me. Lees maybe? Or was there another one? There's a part of me assumes that any batsman from that part of the country will automatically have a Huttonesque technique, although I suppose Lyth and Ballance have kind of put that one to rest.

The other Fat Gary's route to God's Own County was a trifle more circuitous than Sir Leonard's though, to be fair. Coming via Harare and Chesterfield as it did.

 

[honestbharani]

Listened to Stephen Croft a couple of months ago and he said 7 or 8 years ago players tended to specialise from 18 or 19. Now, partly because of T20, players recognise that being able to do both makes them more valuable and more likely to get a contract so young players carry on working on both batting and bowling. In the current England test team only Cook doesn't bowl in any format. Even the keeper was quite a useful medium pacer at 18 or 19. All the seamers around the squad can do a bit with the bat at times. It's conceivable that in the future we may field a whole team that could be nominally be termed all rounders. Until the advent of franchise cricket only a very small number of players could set themselves up for life. A young player who maximises their ability in all 3 disciplines can now earn enough to be set up for the future. There are a number of players in county cricket who are specialist batsmen in one format and bowlers in another.

That is very interesting. Can you gimme some examples? I suppose that left arm bowler who opens and pinch hits in T20s is one of them?