*** Official*** South Africa in England 2017

[StephenZA]

Yeah 3 changes for a team that just absolutely paddled SA. That's not a completely ridiculously stupid idea at all

Yeah because a fantastic innings by Root and truly terrible performance by SA, makes up for clear issues in the Eng line-up and selection.

 

[harsh.ag]

Maybe it's time for Amla to drop down to number four. Too much pressure at 3. Faf can come in at 3.

 

[StephenZA]

Maybe it's time for Amla to drop down to number four. Too much pressure at 3. Faf can come in at 3.

Amla at 4 did not work well either, tried during Indian series beginning of England series. Thing is he looks good and then just misses a straight one or pays a loose shot. .Very frustrating.

 

[harsh.ag]

Test series predictions

Score: 1-1
Most runs: Joe Root
Most wickets: Kagiso Rabada
Surprise performance: Bavuma to get a hundred and a fifty
Disappointment: Stokes
Most infractions: Scaly
AOP (Any other predictions): No five-fer for any English bowler

1-1 looks in trouble
Root is a lock
Rabada's ban makes this unlikely
Bavuma's fifty already happened. Waiting for a hundred.
Stokes was okay with the bat in the first innings but nothing with the ball. Still open, this.
-
This was a long shot but who knew Moeen ****ing Ali would be the first to get a 5-fer

 

[Black_Warrior]

didn't see the play yesterday as was playing but what happened to SA chasing a fairly gettable total with plenty of time? Ali is a decent bowler but am surprised to see him rip through a team like that?

331 is not a fairly gettable total mate. Not in England. Not with the way the pitch crumbled.

No fight in that 2nd innings. Very disappointing and concerning from a SA point of view. One thing SA have always done is fight hard, regardless of the quality of the team.

I won't say they lacked fight. I think pretty much any team would collapse in the 4th innings on that pitch and South Africa are not known for playing spin particularly well.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

331 is not a fairly gettable total mate. Not in England. Not with the way the pitch crumbled.

That 331 was the equivalent of the Aussies being given 750 to get when they got 406 chasing 521 in 09. Was an impossible target on that track though the way some of the wickets went was a bit shocking.

 

[YorksLanka]

331 is not a fairly gettable total mate. Not in England. Not with the way the pitch crumbled.



I won't say they lacked fight. I think pretty much any team would collapse in the 4th innings on that pitch and South Africa are not known for playing spin particularly well.

Wasn't aware that the pitch crumbled mate, surprised to hear that from a Lords wicket? I still think 331 over 4sessions on a typical Lords wicket(rather than this one) should be gettable..

 

[MW1304]

That 331 was the equivalent of the Aussies being given 750 to get when they got 406 chasing 521 in 09.

Gah my head.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Wasn't aware that the pitch crumbled mate, surprised to hear that from a Lords wicket? I still think 331 over 4sessions on a typical Lords wicket(rather than this one) should be gettable..

I think Lords does crumble on Day 4 and bounce can get uneven which is also accounted for some of England's wickets. Pakistan defended 283 quite comfortably last year at Lords. South Africa's best chance was to keep it under 250 which at one point was possible had they taken Bairstow's catch.

 

[91Jmay]

Yeah because a fantastic innings by Root and truly terrible performance by SA, makes up for clear issues in the Eng line-up and selection.

Jennings and Ballance played key innings 2nd dig, put the game past SA despite the whinging about the run rate. Dawson bowled ball of the game to get Amla, and bowled far better than I ever thought he could 2nd dig. He won't ever be the main option but if he gives us 6 bowling options before Woakes comes back that is fine with me in the short term.

Jennings deserves a run opening, he has show flashes of being a pretty good player long term. Ballance shouldn't have been recalled but dropping someone after 1 game is idiotic if you picked him in first place.

 

[Furball]

Do people still not understand that stodgy top 3s allow a stroke playing middle order the freedom to do so?

South Africa spent almost 50 overs bowling at Cook and Jennings in the 2nd innings, that's a lot of miles in the legs for the bowlers. Granted, the middle order struggled to cash in on this occasion but a powerful middle order will normally run amok on a good batting day with that start.

 

[Bijed]

Jennings and Ballance played key innings 2nd dig, put the game past SA despite the whinging about the run rate. Dawson bowled ball of the game to get Amla, and bowled far better than I ever thought he could 2nd dig. He won't ever be the main option but if he gives us 6 bowling options before Woakes comes back that is fine with me in the short term.

Jennings deserves a run opening, he has show flashes of being a pretty good player long term. Ballance shouldn't have been recalled but dropping someone after 1 game is idiotic if you picked him in first place.

Yep, with a bit of context and hindsight, Jennings' and Ballance's 2nd innings were pretty good ones. You could look at the scorecard and surmise that they both got starts then got out, but I think by that point the pitch was one where you're never really in anyway.

Do people still not understand that stodgy top 3s allow a stroke playing middle order the freedom to do so?

South Africa spent almost 50 overs bowling at Cook and Jennings in the 2nd innings, that's a lot of miles in the legs for the bowlers. Granted, the middle order struggled to cash in on this occasion but a powerful middle order will normally run amok on a good batting day with that start.

Bang on. And with the number of <50 for 3 or 4 starts we have in the past few years, if it took the stodgiest top 3 in history to get us past that, I'd snap them up

 

[Heboric]

I guess Proteas without a coach for the 2nd test and maybe for longer, when in rains it pours.

Condolences to the coach

Proteas coach Domingo's mom passes away | Sport24

 

[91Jmay]

Yeah that's rough, Domingo seems a good guy and a pretty solid coach given the factors he has the juggle.

 

[StephenZA]

I won't say they lacked fight. I think pretty much any team would collapse in the 4th innings on that pitch and South Africa are not known for playing spin particularly well.

We clearly lacked fight, yes we have had a bit of a problem playing spin recently but not that much. It was not Nagpur. I did not expect us to get to the 300 odd target but I did think that we could at least get to 200 odd and most of the early dismissals had little to do with the pitch and was just poor batting.

 

[Daemon]

Do people still not understand that stodgy top 3s allow a stroke playing middle order the freedom to do so?

South Africa spent almost 50 overs bowling at Cook and Jennings in the 2nd innings, that's a lot of miles in the legs for the bowlers. Granted, the middle order struggled to cash in on this occasion but a powerful middle order will normally run amok on a good batting day with that start.

England are usually 40/3 inside 25 tho

 

[S.Kennedy]

The point I am making is people hype up Kent players constantly but their best player in years is currently 42 who didn't start bowling properly till he was about 35. If Kent have such a good set of players how come they have been stuck in Division 2 for years and not really threatened to go up?

Maybe because they are nowhere near as good as the hype.

I feel they go up this season. It is between them and Worcs.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Do people still not understand that stodgy top 3s allow a stroke playing middle order the freedom to do so?

South Africa spent almost 50 overs bowling at Cook and Jennings in the 2nd innings, that's a lot of miles in the legs for the bowlers. Granted, the middle order struggled to cash in on this occasion but a powerful middle order will normally run amok on a good batting day with that start.

That is not the ideal though. Normally you'd want to stagger your stodgy players somewhat rather than overload them at the top of the order. The ideal is to have one quasi-attacking player (a Trescothick) as one of your openers alongside a Cook type stodgy player (a Strauss), and with your two most fluent bats at three and four. You want to remove the lacquer but ideally you want to take the sting out of the opening bowlers also, and take them on a bit (Stoneman is actually good at that). Ballance, if you insist on playing him, is a five or six - or a four (at best) if Root played at three, and Root seems better at playing four for whatever reason. But I suppose there is more than one way to skin a cat? The problem can occur in reverse, with an almighty batting collapse once the stodge is removed and nobody left to repair, where a Ballance might be valuable further up.

One thing is certain, you're not going to clear out many bars until Root arrives at the crease. Similarly Cook/Strauss/Trott.

 

[marc71178]

Who cares about clearing bars if they're winning games?

 

[S.Kennedy]

Who cares about clearing bars if they're winning games?

Just like their Champions Trophy performance that you predicted correctly?