*** Official*** South Africa in England 2017

[Pothas]

Sounds like today pretty much sums up England of the last few years. Sure we are frail but we are also a lot of fun.

 

[social]

Thought that would happen as SA were looking a touch ragged pre lunch

One downer for England is that Ballance really doesnt look up to it

I suppose they should give him the series but will be surprised if he does much

 

[mr_mister]

I too will tip my hat to Moeen. So consistent in this format the past 18 months. He's still only a duck away from half this forum calling for his axing though

 

[Adders]

Yeah I love Mo, he fits this team so well imo with the fun and entertainment mantre.

There was a bit of talk pre game as to whether he is one of the best 6 bats in the country and afaic his test record over the last 12-18 months would suggest he definitely is.

His bowling is little more than part time these days but Im comfortable with him in the side at 6 or 7 for his batting alone.

 

[Pothas]

I too will tip my hat to Moeen. So consistent in this format the past 18 months. He's still only a duck away from half this forum calling for his axing though

Nah just theegyptian.

Most of us love Moeen. I wanted him to bat 5 but he is perfect at 7, thing is that I think Bairstow is also perfect at 7. It is not a huge issue though, the top order has been the thing for what seems like forever.

 

[Burgey]

He's pretty much turned into the player Australia hoped Maxwell would become I guess. Posting good numbers with the bat and bowling some handy overs while not really being a full time spinner.

I can't believe how much SA's fielding has dropped away. They used to be brilliant not that long ago. That chance on the boundary in the first session which went over the fielder's head was village.

 

[Shady Slim]

damn sa it's almost as if you drop a great player twice and they're gonna punish you for it????

 

[Starfighter]

Suffice to say England's position looks considerably better than when I last checked the score near lunch yesterday.

 

[grecian]

Nah just theegyptian.

Most of us love Moeen. I wanted him to bat 5 but he is perfect at 7, thing is that I think Bairstow is also perfect at 7. It is not a huge issue though, the top order has been the thing for what seems like forever.

and MW.

TBH, it just seems a bizarre chat about numbers those that knock him. Who cares if he bats at 7, if he's scoring like a top 6 bat there, we've got plenty of depth in batting (maybe not so much with this line-up, but still Dawson a handy number 8), and he scores so quickly he rarely runs out of partners, and anyway he's good with the tail a handy thing.

In the end, the ones that want him dropped seem to want to ignore his batting of over a year to the present time, yet totally forget his bowling of roughly when his batting was shite. His bowling of last Winter is really important, but his batting not, to clear up a jumbled sentence.You could easily just switch the argument on it's head.

Fact is he contributes almost more than any other cricketer England has for consistency for awhile (mind you that's because we have a lot of streaky players ATM in Tests, probably just Root and the two fast bowlers are reliable), just first as a bowling all-rounder, now as a batting one. Maybe it'll switch again, but game-by-game he's rarely not worth a place.

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah just theegyptian.

Most of us love Moeen. I wanted him to bat 5 but he is perfect at 7, thing is that I think Bairstow is also perfect at 7. It is not a huge issue though, the top order has been the thing for what seems like forever.

Just in terms of how he bats I actually five is a great fit for Bairstow. I do worry about the fitness demands of batting as high as five and keeping wicket in Tests though, especially now that he's worked his way into opening in ODIs as well.

This will come off as a weird comparison, but England's selection balance woes actually remind me a lot of simulated cricket. Of their best five batsmen, one of them is a Test standard fast bowler, one of them is a Test standard wicket keeper and of them is very arguably their best spinner. This is a reasonably regular occurrence in simulated cricket, but in reality it's much less common due to workload demands (at least at Test level, anyway). In simulated cricket England would just end up picking a specialist batsman at #8, but that just seems too silly for real life which is why England have fielded sides with Bairstown and Moeen at 7 and 8 below a couple of clearly inferior batsmen, and now seem to have found themselves in an even weirder situation with Dawson. I don't really know how to solve it either -- Moeen or Stokes at eight would be a waste of one of their best batsmen, and picking an eighth batsman or a fifth seamer to bat eight would seem like a waste of a spot. The options that appeal to me most are Rashid (provides a real attacking spin bowling option with plenty of insurance if he's not coming off, and will contribute with the bat if he's not bowling much) and Foakes (a more natural gloveman than Bairstow, who'd allow England's third best batsman to bat up the order a bit and focus on batting). Neither of these are perfect fits either though.

 

[Black_Warrior]

People predicting a low score, this is where the real England batting line up starts. 50/3 is an almost certainty with England, and they still manage scores in the range of 300-400

Yepp I've just watched this side a lot over the last 1 year. Just knew this was going to happen, plus this South African attack without Steyn/Abbott will rely heavily on Philander/Rabada to do all the work and with your spinner leaking runs, it was always going to be difficult to sustain pressure for long periods, esp once the ball gets old.

Expect this to be regular in this series with the strength of England's lower order.

South Africa will really miss Steyn in this series.

I wonder what happened to Piedt. If nothing, he could at least bowl tight lines and keep the runs in check

 

[Black_Warrior]

I see that PEWS has now removed the line "Moeen is a perfectly fine bowler FFS" from his sig. Does this mean he is recanting his position?

 

[Prince EWS]

Removed it ages ago, just to fit in other stuff I think. Stand by it.

 

[LegionOfBrad]

Just in terms of how he bats I actually five is a great fit for Bairstow. I do worry about the fitness demands of batting as high as five and keeping wicket in Tests though, especially now that he's worked his way into opening in ODIs as well.

This will come off as a weird comparison, but England's selection balance woes actually remind me a lot of simulated cricket. Of their best five batsmen, one of them is a Test standard fast bowler, one of them is a Test standard wicket keeper and of them is very arguably their best spinner. This is a reasonably regular occurrence in simulated cricket, but in reality it's much less common due to workload demands (at least at Test level, anyway). In simulated cricket England would just end up picking a specialist batsman at #8, but that just seems too silly for real life which is why England have fielded sides with Bairstown and Moeen at 7 and 8 below a couple of clearly inferior batsmen, and now seem to have found themselves in an even weirder situation with Dawson. I don't really know how to solve it either -- Moeen or Stokes at eight would be a waste of one of their best batsmen, and picking an eighth batsman or a fifth seamer to bat eight would seem like a waste of a spot. The options that appeal to me most are Rashid (provides a real attacking spin bowling option with plenty of insurance if he's not coming off, and will contribute with the bat if he's not bowling much) and Foakes (a more natural gloveman than Bairstow, who'd allow England's third best batsman to bat up the order a bit and focus on batting). Neither of these are perfect fits either though.

I doubt Bairstow will be opening next time we play an ODI. They'll go back to Roy (fine with that)

I think Bairstow will end up as a top 6 bat and not the keeper at some point in the near future.

 

[StephenZA]

I wonder what happened to Piedt. If nothing, he could at least bowl tight lines and keep the runs in check

Piedt has been out of sorts for awhile after his injury, is oplaying for the SA 'A' side. Maharaj has been great for SA, and is a good spinner. Played well in Aus and was brilliant against NZ. Yesterday was not his best day, but I`m not gonna judge his career on one day.....

In the end we dropped one of the best players in the world twice on a relatively flat, day one, pitch, who then proceeded to play a fantastic innings. Can't do that. I have been complaining about the no-ball issue for months now and of all the bowlers I am most worried about Rabada, he did not have any rhythm yesterday and we need him to stand up to replace some of the whole left by Steyn.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bairstow is a gun. If not for the coque he'd be the best keeper-batsman in the world.

Not sure how his keeping is tbh but I mean he'd be the best batsman who keeps

 

[Adders]

Bairstow is a gun. If not for the coque he'd be the best keeper-batsman in the world.

Not sure how his keeping is tbh but I mean he'd be the best batsman who keeps

I'd describe his keeping as serviceable........definitely not a liability like it used to be but far from great. If we had a far better keeper who could ave mid 30s with the bat Id be more than happy having JB give up the gloves and bat 5.

Edit:

Also the way JB has turned his batting around and forced his way back into the test side through a mountain of FC runs has definitely softened me on the Garry Balance selection......even if yesterday didn't go so well.

 

[Groundking]

Just in terms of how he bats I actually five is a great fit for Bairstow. I do worry about the fitness demands of batting as high as five and keeping wicket in Tests though, especially now that he's worked his way into opening in ODIs as well.

This will come off as a weird comparison, but England's selection balance woes actually remind me a lot of simulated cricket. Of their best five batsmen, one of them is a Test standard fast bowler, one of them is a Test standard wicket keeper and of them is very arguably their best spinner. This is a reasonably regular occurrence in simulated cricket, but in reality it's much less common due to workload demands (at least at Test level, anyway). In simulated cricket England would just end up picking a specialist batsman at #8, but that just seems too silly for real life which is why England have fielded sides with Bairstown and Moeen at 7 and 8 below a couple of clearly inferior batsmen, and now seem to have found themselves in an even weirder situation with Dawson. I don't really know how to solve it either -- Moeen or Stokes at eight would be a waste of one of their best batsmen, and picking an eighth batsman or a fifth seamer to bat eight would seem like a waste of a spot. The options that appeal to me most are Rashid (provides a real attacking spin bowling option with plenty of insurance if he's not coming off, and will contribute with the bat if he's not bowling much) and Foakes (a more natural gloveman than Bairstow, who'd allow England's third best batsman to bat up the order a bit and focus on batting). Neither of these are perfect fits either though.

I don't know, with how prone Anderson and Stokes seem to be to breaking down at the minute I think there is some merit in picking 4 seem up options and then using Stokes and Moeen as situational bowlers, if only to reduce the load on all our seemers. I'm not even convinced I'd give Stokes many overs until the ball is a bit older, as he seems to get some reverse quite often in overs 60-80, and then just bowl Moeen if it's warm and there's turn.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'd describe his keeping as serviceable........definitely not a liability like it used to be but far from great. If we had a far better keeper who could ave mid 30s with the bat Id be more than happy having JB give up the gloves and bat 5.

Edit:

Also the way JB has turned his batting around and forced his way back into the test side through a mountain of FC runs has definitely softened me on the Garry Balance selection......even if yesterday didn't go so well.

The difference is Gary Ballance looks absolutely terrible against international bowling, at least every time I've seen him bat. Watching him try to bat against Aus last time was really awkward.

 

[ImpatientLime]

if ballance fails to impress over the course of the summer, his test career is as good as dead.

technically he looks shambolic and he comes across as meek and unsure about his game.