Where have the Pakistani Big Hitters gone?

[tobe_ornot2]

This is something I think someone actually in Pakistan and exposed to their domestic circuit can answer the best. So, where are the big hitters? Pakistan were famous throughout the 90s and early 00s as a hard hitting, all out ODI side, fro mAkram and Inzy through Afridi and Moin by wya of Razzak with so many others. So what happened? How has the art of hitting boundaries (very big boundaries) just disappeared? Only Malik has looked up for it in the last 18 months or so.

Is Zaman the one? Fahim Ashraf? Are the right type of batsmen not being selected? I seem to see Hafeez and co fail over and over again when it matters most and yet they are a steady addition to the side.

This has me flummoxed. It's as if one day Australia ran out of fast bowling talen tand ended up fielding a team of medium pacers and county style dibbly dobblers.

 

[Burgey]

They did. It was called the 1980s.

 

[Black_Warrior]

This is something I think someone actually in Pakistan and exposed to their domestic circuit can answer the best. So, where are the big hitters? Pakistan were famous throughout the 90s and early 00s as a hard hitting, all out ODI side, fro mAkram and Inzy through Afridi and Moin by wya of Razzak with so many others. So what happened? How has the art of hitting boundaries (very big boundaries) just disappeared? Only Malik has looked up for it in the last 18 months or so.

Is Zaman the one? Fahim Ashraf? Are the right type of batsmen not being selected? I seem to see Hafeez and co fail over and over again when it matters most and yet they are a steady addition to the side.

This has me flummoxed. It's as if one day Australia ran out of fast bowling talen tand ended up fielding a team of medium pacers and county style dibbly dobblers.

If you're genuinely interested in an analysis beyond the facile "aggressive/defensive" and "Pakistan don't play with heart and guts anymore" that is the standard analysis in Pakistan for their cricketing problems, then read through this piece.

It is a long read but a comprehensive exploration of the dysfunction, disarray and ultimate collapse of Pakistan cricket, It's not just about big power hitters but Pakistan don't produce stroke playing batsmen, they don't produce 150+ fast bowlers who can reverse the ball. The test team succeeded despite all that because the test format itself is exactly the same for the last 200 years, so you can play without adapting to the style of others. You will get called out for being defensive or selfish, but you can succeed. But the LO formats don't allow you that space.

The Fault in our Stars - Dawn

 

[Shri]

https://twitter.com/mediagag/status/866668764334620673?s=09

 

[SL Bada]

Not just big hitting, PAK batting in general has depleted. Obviously Azam is a good talent, but how many PAK bats have recorded average 30+ with SR 80+ over a considerable period (say 100 ODIs) since Anwar? U Akmal and Malik? Lack of strong strokeplay.

 

[91Jmay]

They all seem to be able to clear the ropes ok, it's the rest of it. 4th stump line to all their bats aside from the keeper basically strangles them into nothing.

 

[harsh.ag]

https://twitter.com/mediagag/status/866668764334620673?s=09

Why do twenty teams not lower the competitiveness of the european football leagues? Is it because of the lower level of investment in domestic first class cricket?

 

[Black_Warrior]

The guy who wrote that tweet explored it much more in that piece. It's a long read but if interested, I'd suggest people to read it.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Why do twenty teams not lower the competitiveness of the european football leagues?

the european football leagues are pretty uncompetitive tbh, most of them are duopolies or monopolies

 

[harsh.ag]

the european football leagues are pretty uncompetitive tbh, most of them are duopolies or monopolies

Should have been more clear. Meant the competitiveness of the national teams, not the leagues per se.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Well football siphons up most of the available sporting talent (in most countries except for US/Australia), so doesn't need as clear development structures to produce great sportsmen - it's a strained analogy.

The top level of the pyramid isn't the national team, it's a club that plays Champions League, and the clubs don't exist to provide players for the national team. If it were fully up to the clubs and the fans, the national teams would probably be abolished quite quickly.

 

[harsh.ag]

Well football siphons up most of the available sporting talent (in most countries except for US/Australia), so doesn't need as clear development structures to produce great sportsmen - it's a strained analogy.

Well that's clearly true of cricket in Pakistan too.

The top level of the pyramid isn't the national team, it's a club that plays Champions League, and the clubs don't exist to provide players for the national team. If it were fully up to the clubs and the fans, the national teams would probably be abolished quite quickly.

Right, but it doesn't lead to weak national sides. So, again, why should it in cricket?

 

[91Jmay]

Why do twenty teams not lower the competitiveness of the european football leagues? Is it because of the lower level of investment in domestic first class cricket?

Probably because the Championship in England has as more money in it than first class cricket on the planet.

 

[tobe_ornot2]

If you're genuinely interested in an analysis beyond the facile "aggressive/defensive" and "Pakistan don't play with heart and guts anymore" that is the standard analysis in Pakistan for their cricketing problems, then read through this piece.

It is a long read but a comprehensive exploration of the dysfunction, disarray and ultimate collapse of Pakistan cricket, It's not just about big power hitters but Pakistan don't produce stroke playing batsmen, they don't produce 150+ fast bowlers who can reverse the ball. The test team succeeded despite all that because the test format itself is exactly the same for the last 200 years, so you can play without adapting to the style of others. You will get called out for being defensive or selfish, but you can succeed. But the LO formats don't allow you that space.

The Fault in our Stars - Dawn

Ok I'll have a read through that later, thanks.

 

[tobe_ornot2]

Having said this and made this thread I'm not a doom and gloom kinda guy. Pakistan has two very good ODI bowlers and the best young leggy around, the best old leggy and arguably the best test batsman/opener going.

The problem is, stroke makers seem to have disappeared in a country famous for it. That's what's weird. Its not as if Pakistans first class system just got bad, it's always been THAT bad.

Maybe bad selection policies? Where's umar akmal, can he really be that unfit? Why is zaman not being played? The psl showed some good strikers, where are they now? Why is hafeez being persisted with? And so on.

Its a really Complicated problem that requires good selection and better coaching.

 

[Black_Warrior]

The problem is, stroke makers seem to have disappeared in a country famous for it. That's what's weird. Its not as if Pakistans first class system just got bad, it's always been THAT bad.

There's a difference between old bad and now bad. Read through the piece and it will make it all clear, why they are not producing stroke playing batsmen or genuine fast bowlers

 

[91Jmay]

Those pieces are terrific. Must read for anyone interested in Pakistan.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I guess I'll pass then...

 

[tobe_ornot2]

There's a difference between old bad and now bad. Read through the piece and it will make it all clear, why they are not producing stroke playing batsmen or genuine fast bowlers

Very good pieces! In particular the first one. I had no idea the work Bazid Khan was trying to get done, good on him! Since the article is from 2015, has he made any headway?

However, I have to go back to what my thread is about, pitches and balls were just as bad in the 80s and 90s and if they are even worse now, why are they producing test quality players? Test cricket is the highest form of the game and Pak have some of the games absolute stand outs in Shah and Ali (Misbah and Khan just retired) with arguably the greatest lower order batsman in a decade if not ever in Shafiq.

So what I want to try and understand is purely the idea of someone who is a good stroke maker or a big hitter. Where are they? Are there some in the domestic game who are not being picked? Surely flat, docile wickets should produce better hitters? SL still manage to produce some strikers and they have a worse system than Pakistan. India's first class system and pitches are hardly world class and they have terrific stroke makers, although they don't match modern day England...who were never famous for their stroke makers?

I think a bigger problem may be the lack of coaching in Pakistan. In England we have entire sessions where guys practice hitting the ball out the park. Guys are practicing playing unorthodox strokes on certain pitch types or certain types of bowling so when they do it in a match situation, it is not unusual.

I would also be remiss if I did not mention someone like Zaman not getting a go in the side even though someone like that is needed. And what of the Umar AKmal debacle, a guy with all the talent in the world but noone there to motivate him and at the same time, to give him a fair shake in the side.

Sorry for the long post but I am just so lost as to how a country with genuine strikers goes from hero to zero, even though the first class system, pitches and quality of equipment has often been poor. Didn't Imran Khan mention the same problems in domestic cricket in the 80s that Bazid is doing now?

 

[91Jmay]

Very good pieces! In particular the first one. I had no idea the work Bazid Khan was trying to get done, good on him! Since the article is from 2015, has he made any headway?

However, I have to go back to what my thread is about, pitches and balls were just as bad in the 80s and 90s and if they are even worse now, why are they producing test quality players? Test cricket is the highest form of the game and Pak have some of the games absolute stand outs in Shah and Ali (Misbah and Khan just retired) with arguably the greatest lower order batsman in a decade if not ever in Shafiq.

So what I want to try and understand is purely the idea of someone who is a good stroke maker or a big hitter. Where are they? Are there some in the domestic game who are not being picked? Surely flat, docile wickets should produce better hitters? SL still manage to produce some strikers and they have a worse system than Pakistan. India's first class system and pitches are hardly world class and they have terrific stroke makers, although they don't match modern day England...who were never famous for their stroke makers?

I think a bigger problem may be the lack of coaching in Pakistan. In England we have entire sessions where guys practice hitting the ball out the park. Guys are practicing playing unorthodox strokes on certain pitch types or certain types of bowling so when they do it in a match situation, it is not unusual.

I would also be remiss if I did not mention someone like Zaman not getting a go in the side even though someone like that is needed. And what of the Umar AKmal debacle, a guy with all the talent in the world but noone there to motivate him and at the same time, to give him a fair shake in the side.

Sorry for the long post but I am just so lost as to how a country with genuine strikers goes from hero to zero, even though the first class system, pitches and quality of equipment has often been poor. Didn't Imran Khan mention the same problems in domestic cricket in the 80s that Bazid is doing now?

If you read the articles, the pitches and balls weren't as bad in the 80s/90s though. Whilst you may dispute that, the articles provide quite a lot of evidence.