• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

***Official*** Pakistan in West Indies 2017

Burner

International Regular
Rameez Raja's ODI strike rate is 63

In tests his strike rate isn't confirmed but he boasts such delights as

29 (162) when Pakistan opted not to chase 213 to win in 78 overs against the West Indies, they drew the match and series
13* (69) against England, again opting not to chase a target which would have won Pakistan the series
2 (41) on a road at Adelaide in an innings where Imran Khan and Wasim Akram both hit hundreds
Haha, you might think the guy might sympathize a little then. I remember him going on a rant when Azhar was about to his century about how sad Azhar's game is going to be if he is scoring runs at that rate most of the time.
 

Grumpy

U19 Vice-Captain
He was complaining about how Azhar doesn't have the hook shot and how can he be a complete player without it and won't be successful.

What a moron.

He was Pak's best bat in Australia. Just because you realise what your limitations are and put certain shots in the locker, does not make you a bad player. There was a very successful Aus player who did the same. No one in their right mind would accuse Steve Waugh of not being a complete test player
 

Grumpy

U19 Vice-Captain
I have to disagree a little bit with that. It's not that he agrees with those around him. He just has a very simplistic, surface level understanding of batting like most casual fans which does not understand anything beyond 'aggressive/defensive and 'positive/negative' and 'intent'
I don't know. I've heard Rameez praise the Misbah formula before when the co-commentators praise Pak when they are on top. He's not consistent with his opinion because he doesn't have one.

Either way, at least we can agree that he is utterly incompetent in his job.
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
You're right about that. He certainly doesn't have a consistent take on things. That's why he reminds me so much of social media chatter because he says things to 'belong'. So now that 'modern cricket' is a thing and you have guys like Warner in a Post Sehwag world, he obviously thinks it makes him cool to go on and on about Azhar's and Pakistan's strike rate.

In the second test match in UAE last year when Pakistan came out to bat in the 2nd innings with a huge lead, Sami and Azhar were very circumspect, in response to getting bowled out for 123 in the 2nd innings in the 1st test a week earlier and allowing WI to come back into the game. And Ramiz started having a go at them for 'playing for a draw'.
 

Burner

International Regular
It's not just Ramiz Raja though. Even Waqar Younis was criticizing Pakistans's approach. And I also agree with them a little. It's definitely fine to lay a platform and all but Pakistan never made an effort to up the run-rate even after Lunch. Only after Sarfaraz was out in the middle were they getting a move on. In a match where they are desperate to win, shortened by rain, it was a little too circumspect of an approach.
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Certainly you can criticize their approach and batting but there is a difference between making an informed critique on their batting and going after them as players. Ramiz does the latter.

This is a very very old fashioned team in terms of the team composition, their playing style, approach, strategies etc. There's no two ways about that. This is a team that belongs more in the 80s and before and looks totally out of place in a Post Australian team of the 00s who set the tone of batting at 4 and over and then a Post Sehwag world of attacking the new ball.

These things are not in question here. The point though is, Test cricket itself is timeless, and it's history of 200 years is so vast and diverse, that the idea that there's only one way to be a good side is ridiculous. The other formats are different, there are more restrictions on you as a player, the format itself changes a lot and you have to keep up. Not Test cricket. The format and rules never change. It's still 5 days, played over 90s overs day, with 3 sessions and a new ball every 80 overs. This is why Pakistan's peak as a Test side also coincided with their decline as a LO side. These old fashioned players have all the freedom and time to make Test cricket their own. LO formats don't allow you that.

There is the Australian way epitomised by Warner today. That is effective and works brilliantly especially in Australian pitches and not so well in some conditions as recent past would have shown.

We have different conditions in the world today and some approaches work well in a wide array of conditions, some don't. There isn't really 'right formula' for all. The right formula is the one that works best for your team. It should be based completely on the strengths, ability, technique, skills of the players in the team.

This particular team, other than Asad Shafiq and Babar Azam (who is yet to establish himself at Test level) are not natural and fluent stroke players or timers of the ball. They are not adept at driving through the line, finding gaps, and timing to perfection.

Azhar, Misbah, Younis and Shafiq - the core of this batting line up - All 4 of them need a very very long time to get set every time they start an innings. And that includes every time they start an innings after a session break or the start of a new day. Their batting philosophy is based on one simple theory - get set, get your eye in, get a feel and understanding of the pitch, bounce, and in the process, see of the new ball, wear out the bowlers, grind down the opposition, and then you find that you the runs on the board at the end of the day.

This is who they are. You can't change that. All 4 of them are still very different to each other though. Shafiq, once he can get set can be an extremely fluent stroke players, no less than the best in the world. He has pretty much all the shots, great at both front and back foot, can play on both sides of the wicket. He has the cuts, pulls and the drives and punches. A delight to watch once set. He is the guy who can step up the scoring after he is set.

Younis Khan also takes a very very long time and struggles a great deal for his first 30 runs. It's not even the number of balls or time for him, it's usually the runs. If he gets his first 30 runs, even if it takes him 100 balls, chances are he will go and get a 100. His first 30 runs can take him a very long time, but if he gets that, he can step up the scoring rate too, and becomes a completely different player, finds gaps, picks up singles, rotates strike at will. He is not as fluent a stroke player as Shafiq but can match his scoring rate still.

Azhar and Misbah are slightly different from the two above. They take a long time to get set, but even after they are set, because of their limitations in shot range and stroke play, they are often not able to match the scoring rate of the above two. Misbah can step up with his massive sixes if he gets the spinners once has seen of the fast bowlers and can go berserk every now and then especially if he gets Steve Smith, but unless spinners are bowling a lot and he can sweet and reverse sweep them, his scoring rate will be in the 40s.

Azhar does not have Misbah's big hitting ability, nor does he have the pull or cuts. He takes a lot of time, and while he has drives straight down the ground, unless he gets that length, he will struggle to find boundaries. But what he has demonstrated over the last 3 years is incredible temperament, patience and mental strength. The guy can bat and bat and bat.

The reason Pakistan's scoring rate has been slower than normal in this series is because the YK and Shafiq are struggling for runs and the majority of the scoring has been done by the Misbah and Azhar. In each of the first 2 tests, if it was YK or Shafiq getting a ton along with Misbah or Azhar, you would have seen a much better scoring rate overall because YK/Shafiq would have made up for the lack of scoring opportunities created by Azhar/Misbah

Now this is just who they are. These are their limitations and strengths. You can criticise them or appreciate this, that's your prerogative but criticism of them as players and questioning their intent, saying things like "they are negative players, playing for a draw" is just terrible analysis and commentators who resort to such lazy assessments should be called out. They are old fashioned, but this is also the best performing batting line up in the world in the last 6 years. That's Test cricket.
 
Last edited:

Howe_zat

Audio File
Next session will make the game, Windies top order is cod ordinary but if their middle order can keep Pakistan out for the rest of the day then we're headed for a likely draw.

If Pakistan get 10 wickets by stumps they win.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Chase has really developed into a fine Test all rounder. In this game he's looked like the Windies best bowler and best batsman and I like the decision to move him up a spot to number 5.

When the Windies tour England later this year I think he has the batting technique to strive in those conditions - his bowling less so, although he'll be there for containment and to give the quicks a rest. The good thing about having him in the team means the Windies XI could be more flexible if Bishoo's legbreaks are Daemon'd.
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
The decision to not pick Wahab is hurting Pakistan. Hassan and Abbas are workhorse bowlers and Amir doesn't have much if there's nothing in the pitch. The only fast bowler in Pakistan who can force wickets is Wahab. You can't have a 4 man attack with Hassan, Abbas and Amir. You can accomodate 2 of them and then have Wahab.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Hasan Ali and Shadab Khan would have been better suited bowling in the opposite Test to the one they were selected for.

That's probably worded weirdly - Hasan's bowling would have been good in the 2nd Test and Shadab would have done better in the current Test.
 

Firebreaker

Banned
I don't know why Pak don't play Imad Wasim in Tests.Je could have been much better option in this Test than Hassan or Abbas
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Bazid Khan and Ian Bishop - the two best commentators working today after Athers and Hussain.


1st rule of great commentary: Don't just sit there and criticize what the teams are doing, and how much smarter and better you are and what should be done according to you. We don't care. You retired 100 years ago *cough* Ian Chappel cough*. Tell us what the current captain is thinking, analyse the benefits and weakness of this strategy, provide us an insight as to what the captain could be aiming for.
 
Last edited:

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Bazid Khan and Ian Bishop - the two best commentators working today after Athers and Hussain.


1st rule of great commentary: Don't just sit there and criticize what the teams are doing, and how much smarter and better you are and what should be done according to you. We don't care. You retired 100 years ago *cough* Ian Chappel cough*. Tell us what the current captain is thinking, analyse the benefits and weakness of this strategy, provide us an insight as to what the captain could be aiming for.
Tbf, this is what Chappelli does, or attempts to do pretty much any time he commentates. It's actually kind of annoying.
 

Top