Players who 'over-performed' internationally

[vic_orthdox]

Yeah, he came through pretty big in that 2003 World Cup when thrown in the deep end.

 

[Black_Warrior]

People definitely had hype for Smith has an all-rounder, not just a bowler

Unless the hype included him being one of the best batsmen of his era, pushing into ATG status, it doesn't count.

 

[_Ed_]

The remarkable thing about Hogg was that he debuted after Warne's doping scandal in the world cup. In such a pressure situation Hogg never looked out of place and had a great career.

Didn't he have a brief stint in ODIs in the 1990s?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Didn't he have a brief stint in ODIs in the 1990s?

Definitely played a Test or two, doubt it was his debut in the WC.

 

[honestbharani]

He was there for that one off test in India in 1996. Not sure if he played though.

 

[stephen]

I never realised but he played 7 odis in 1996. That was it until the Australian summer just before the 2003 WC.

 

[honestbharani]

Was it during the Titan Cup in India?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Steve Smith - If you're going to say things like "oh but I always knew he was special" when his claim to fame was a leg spinner who could 'potentially' be the next Warne, you're lying and everyone knows it. Stop pretending. All the conversations were about Smith the leg spinner. I still remember that Smith and Hauritz were put forward as the likely spinners Australia would look for and how Smith has to improve his control and stop bowling long hops if he is to become a test spinner.

This is just patently untrue. He was always more of a batsman who bowled, or a batting all-rounder at best. Selectors picking him in an unusual role does not mean the majority of people saw him that way.

 

[Top_Cat]

Hogg definitely played in the one-off Test, got Ganguly sweeping around the corner.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Was that the same one off test where Nayan Mongia scored 150 against McGrath and Co? So random.

 

[srbhkshk]

Just realized, has Kumble been mentioned? People laughed at a leggie who couldn't turn the ball when he came in.

 

[Top_Cat]

Personally doesn't count, all the good judges were rating Kumble highly from the get-go. Was the worst part about India not touring Oz in the 90's, didn't get to see him until he'd been playing for a decade.

Was that the same one off test where Nayan Mongia scored 150 against McGrath and Co? So random.

Yup. Was a great knock, from memory.

 

[srbhkshk]

Personally doesn't count, all the good judges were rating Kumble highly from the get-go. Was the worst part about India not touring Oz in the 90's, didn't get to see him until he'd been playing for a decade.

I recall an interview of Kumble (close to his retirement) where he mentioned that his and Sachin's challenges were opposite, Sachin's was to prove the people right, while his was to prove them wrong.

 

[honestbharani]

If you are talking Indian players I will say Sehwag and Kohli have proven most posters here wrong.

 

[Bahnz]

Does Wagner count? Short, not particularly quick, poor seam presentation. None of us were particularly enthused by him to begin with when he came over here (seeing as he averaged about 33 during his first two seasons with Otago) and most of us wrote him off as garbage after his first couple tests. And yet he's somehow managed to take 120 test wickets at 28.

BJ Watling arguably another from the current NZ crop. No account U19 player, decent though far from outstanding career in FC cricket, and yet when the wheel of the wickies landed on him he suddenly started making runs with a consistency that even the most optimistic ND fan couldn't have hoped for.

 

[Black_Warrior]

This is just patently untrue. He was always more of a batsman who bowled, or a batting all-rounder at best. Selectors picking him in an unusual role does not mean the majority of people saw him that way.

Not talking about how he was picked. Talking about how he was received when he started. It is absolutely untrue that a majority saw him as being a batting stalwart and tipped him to be one of the best when he started.

If you compare that with Root, Kohli, KW, they were tipped to become greats pretty much as soon as they started. Smith became part of that conversation from around early 2013. He made his debut in 2010.

Now of course we can say that most people were wrong and the selectors were wrong. That is not in question here. But that does not change the fact that people did not initially recognize him as a batting great which is what I'm talking about.

There is a big difference between a player's ability and how he is received. That is ultimately what I am getting at when talking about "Over performance" and "Under performance"

Over/Under is based on people's perceptions. I am not saying Smith was crap before and suddenly became great. Smith showed batting promise in 2010 itself, when he scored a 70 odd against Amir/Asif when bigger names in his Australian side were clueless. It's the perception which did not recognize his ability until 2013.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Not talking about how he was picked. Talking about how he was received when he started. It is absolutely untrue that a majority saw him as being a batting stalwart and tipped him to be one of the best when he started.

If you compare that with Root, Kohli, KW, they were tipped to become greats pretty much as soon as they started. Smith became part of that conversation from around early 2013. He made his debut in 2010.

Now of course we can say that most people were wrong and the selectors were wrong. That is not in question here. But that does not change the fact that people did not initially recognize him as a batting great which is what I'm talking about.

There is a big difference between a player's ability and how he is received. That is ultimately what I am getting at when talking about "Over performance" and "Under performance"

Over/Under is based on people's perceptions. I am not saying Smith was crap before and suddenly became great. Smith showed batting promise in 2010 itself, when he scored a 70 odd against Amir/Asif when bigger names in his Australian side were clueless. It's the perception which did not recognize his ability until 2013.

ok?

I don't really care about any of that. It's not relevant at all to what I said, I was referring specifically to your post which I quoted and even bolded just to make it clear.

Whether he underperformed or overperformed in neither here nor there. That's not what I said.

He was never widely seen as more of a bowler. End of discussion.

 

[Black_Warrior]

He was. End of discussion.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He was. End of discussion.

If you actually think that, good for you