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*Official* Tennis Thread
- Thread starter Mister Wright
- Start date
vcs
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Djokovic isn't close to his best from what I've seen in the last couple of matches. Good chance for Nadal to rack up yet another dominant clay court swing this year.
His absolute dominance of clay is one of the most ridiculous streaks I've seen in sports. Not even Federer or Sampras dominated grass to this extent. Though it does help that they have a proper clay court season with 3 Masters 1000 and a couple of other tournaments, whereas grass is basically just Wimbledon.
His absolute dominance of clay is one of the most ridiculous streaks I've seen in sports. Not even Federer or Sampras dominated grass to this extent. Though it does help that they have a proper clay court season with 3 Masters 1000 and a couple of other tournaments, whereas grass is basically just Wimbledon.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I would suggest if the grass season in the mid 00s was what it was in the mid 90s, Fed would have raked up just as dominant numbers as Rafa on clay. And beaten Nadal H2H more often. Its a hilarious argument by some Rafa fans over on another forum I have started frequenting, a tennis one, where they say the fact that Federer makes it most of the way through clay tourneys only to lose to Nadal in the latter stages in some way makes him inferior than Nadal, who loses or does not play grass tourneys that much and when he does, he often gets knocked out much earlier, thus never having to face Federer there, esp. in best of 3 set matches.
vcs
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Nadal was pretty consistent on grass upto about 2011 TBF. Made 5 Wimbledon finals and won a couple of titles. It's a great record. But yes, I would suggest that Federer would have at least 10 more MS series titles to his name if there were 3 per year on grass. He'd have clean swept most of them between 2003-2007 where he was barely threatened on that surface.
What I find impressive about Nadal's clay dominance is that he was able to hold off Federer at his dominant peak between '05-'07. And then kept Djokovic at bay upto 2015. His combined record against them at the French Open is 11-1 or something. That is basically mind-boggling. They are both GOAT contenders and excellent clay-court players, to dominate them to that extent at one Slam is a totally unique achievement.
What I find impressive about Nadal's clay dominance is that he was able to hold off Federer at his dominant peak between '05-'07. And then kept Djokovic at bay upto 2015. His combined record against them at the French Open is 11-1 or something. That is basically mind-boggling. They are both GOAT contenders and excellent clay-court players, to dominate them to that extent at one Slam is a totally unique achievement.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Yeah but I meant Nadal on grass was still not as impressive as Federer on clay. To me, if not for Nadal, Fed would have had 3 to 4 French Open titles and at least 1 or 2 calendar year slams. You really can't say that about Nadal though, can you?
OverratedSanity
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Sure you can. Nadal would've won 06 and 07 if not for Federer,giving him 4 Wimbledon titles.
vcs
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Probably not. Nadal is more likely to lose to random players on faster surfaces. Federer at his peak (2005-08) basically lost only to Nadal on clay. After 2008, he started becoming more vulnerable.
Djokovic in his peak years (2011 and 2014-15) actually managed to beat Rafa on clay, only to lose to other players at the French Open.
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OverratedSanity
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vcs
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I wasn't disputing that point. Even Federer barely beat him in 2007 and dropped a set in 2006 after breezing past everyone else. Just think Nadal is more prone to the early upset on quicker surfaces compared to Federer on clay.
Actually I was replying to HB in the quoted post, your post got in first.
Actually I was replying to HB in the quoted post, your post got in first.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Nah, you are comparing 2 to 4. And honestly I think Nadal would have still lost those years. Forget the Federer's half, there were folks in Nadal's half who might have beaten him on that surface if they had made it. Like Hewitt, for instance. You are grossly overestimating Nadal's grass court game.
OverratedSanity
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?
But they didn't beat him in 06 and 07. He got to the final both times. I'm working of the premise of "Would Nadal have won if not for Federer?". Answer is yes, imo. No one from Federer's half really could've stopped Nadal in the final those years, especially 06.
vcs
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Federer overcame a tough draw in '06.
Gasquet, (fading) Henman, Mahut, Berdych, and Ancic were all more dangerous grass-court players than the ones Rafa faced. He nearly lost to Robert Kendrick in an early round.
His runs to the final in '07 and '08 were very convincing though.
Gasquet, (fading) Henman, Mahut, Berdych, and Ancic were all more dangerous grass-court players than the ones Rafa faced. He nearly lost to Robert Kendrick in an early round.
His runs to the final in '07 and '08 were very convincing though.
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honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
No. My premise was, was there a player who could beat Federer on Clay in those years except Nadal? If you flip that question around to Nadal and grass, you will see why the answer was different in my opinion.?
I'm working of the premise of "Would Nadal have won if not for Federer?". Answer is yes, imo. No one from Federer's half really could've stopped Nadal in the final those years, especially 06.
Niall
International Coach
Goffin no gimme these days.
