Left-arm Chinaman bowlers!!..can they make it at test level?

[the big bambino]

Wonderful post SJS. The Hammond ball was indeed the ball of the century before Warne matched it against Gatting. He was a terriffic character and could have been a member of a 4 some that also included Grimmett, O'Reilly and McCormick which, thanks to personality clashes with an influential selector, (read Bradman) never took the field. Pity as it would have been one of Australia's best attacks and justifiable in a side containing Bradman to make up for the fact all 4 (with the possible exception of Grimmett) were poor batsmen.

 

[the big bambino]

I was also surprised seeing the silly old duffer Prof Manning Clark claim he played against Fleetwood-Smith while at university. Manning Clark said he could produce a ball of genius but the rest were rubbish.

One could say much the same about Manning Clark's histories except that the rubbish was never off set by any moment of genius.

 

[harsh.ag]

 

[ImpatientLime]

why is it acceptable to still use the term 'chinaman'?

 

[WindieWeathers]

why is it acceptable to still use the term 'chinaman'?

I started this thread in 2013!!...what's changed since then to make it unacceptable?

 

[Red]

why is it acceptable to still use the term 'chinaman'?

It was named after Ellis Achong, a Chinaman

 

[ImpatientLime]

i think you're missing the point that the term chinaman is a historically demeaning word used by people from the west.

 

[Red]

i think you're missing the point that the term chinaman is a historically demeaning word used by people from the west.

You might be right. I can't keep up with what's ok and what isn't any more. Figure if I can try to stop myself being a **** to people IRL most of the time it's better off to not sweat the small stuff.

 

[Gnske]

why is it acceptable to still use the term 'chinaman'?

I had no idea you had an account here Andrew Wu.

I agree frankly, and how dare it be china"MAN", just more ***ism in the game.

 

[AndrewB]

It was named after Ellis Achong, a Chinaman

"Old Ebor" cast doubt on that theory in his blog*, noting that Cardus wrote "Who has ever seen Macaulay bowl the 'googly' in serious cricket? And if he did, what would a certain other member of the Yorkshire XI have to say about this sudden use of 't'Chinaman'?" in a 1926 Guardian book review, three years before Achong's first-class debut. His conclusion was as follows:

"It is as certain that the use of "chinaman" did not have any association with Puss Achong, and was not coined by Walter Robins. It is also fairly certain that Achong did not bowl a chinaman or googly; Cardus would almost certainly have spotted it and commented. He did when Leyland bowled them, he did when Waddington bowled them. It is possible that Achong did, and that one such ball dismissed Robins or Hendren. It is vaguely possible that one of them made the famous "bloody Chinaman" comment about that ball. Or that they meant it in a derogatory way that had nothing to do with the delivery. Or that they never said anything of the sort."


*oldebor.blogspot.co.uk/2015_08_01.archive.html : the blog is no longer online, but you can read it using the wayback archive.

 

[Adders]

i think you're missing the point that the term chinaman is a historically demeaning word used by people from the west.

Is it really? Genuine question as I have no idea.

On the face of it though it does seem ridiculous, I can think of more than half a dozen terms that have been used which would fit this bill......but Chinaman? Seems as innocuous and descriptive as Englishman to me.

 

[Chewie]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinaman_(term)

 

[Chewie]

I'd say it's similar to me calling someone a gweilo or a Japanese person calling someone a gaijin - can have negative connotations but does not necessarily

 

[cnerd123]

I'd say it's similar to me calling someone a gweilo or a Japanese person calling someone a gaijin - can have negative connotations but does not necessarily

Fun fact - there is now a bar/craft beer in HK called Gweilo

Never heard any of the Chinese cricketers I've interacted with in HK ever complain about this btw. It's not like being a Chinaman bowler is undesirable in anyway is it? If anything it's probably more desirable than any other bowling style, given how rare it is.

 

[Chewie]

Yea I think using the term in this way is fine, but using the term in general can be derogatory depending on the circumstances

 

[harsh.ag]

Fantastic discussion on Kuldeep Yadav, guys.

 

[cnerd123]

Not a fan of the mechanics of Kuldeep's action but love the revs he gets, and being on the shorter side is the perfect height for a leggie as he can get all that loop and dip

Need to see how he bowls on a bad day tho. That's the real test of a quality wrist spinner.

 

[Gnske]

But does he know his bowling style is vehemently racist, that's what I want to know

 

[srbhkshk]

But does he know his bowling style is vehemently racist, that's what I want to know

****er took 4 Aussie wickets and won't make Indians play even 1 delivery, racist to the core...

 

[karan316]

A chinaman bowler is similar to an offie bowling round the wicket.

Minus the control.