***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2017

[fishyguy]

Do you guys think that if SA didn't have the quota system instead of being a decent side they could've been a side that could dominate like Australia did for the last 2 decades

 

[Bahseph]

Do you guys think that if SA didn't have the quota system instead of being a decent side they could've been a side that could dominate like Australia did for the last 2 decades

I think the team would be more or less the same except for one spot. The main issues SA have are with regards to our batting. Cook is probably going to be replaced soon, although I do feel he deserves at least another few Tests.

Amla is going through a rough patch but no one is dropping him. Bavuma is an odd case, he will be shielded with regards to selection because of his race to a degree,he seems incapable of scoring soft runs and doesn't convert his fifties but he has produced some vital get-out-of-jail knocks for us already and I'm sure all of the CW SA contingent trust him to dig in more at 50/4 than 300/4. He has promise.

JP, as clearly talented as he is, is just too inconsistent. And if we didn't have quotas we would probably see De Bruyn/Rilee or in an ideal world AB at 4. That's about it. I don't think the quotas have made as big of a difference to the Test team.

And before anyone brings up Abbot, the new system probably played a part in him leaving but he couldn't crack the Test side long before this was even an issue. Steyn, Morkel and Philander were definitely our top 3 pacers. It's no slight on him, a brilliant bowler, but that trio gave SA great success.

 

[lockton2skipper]

New zealand batting looking very threadbare without roscoe. Latham out of form plus 2 allrounders found out by saffas bowling. Watching de grandhomme and southee bowl terry alderman comes to mind although degrandhomme is like brian mcmillan without the pace. Still think you should always play 4 genuine bowlers.

 

[Immenso]

Both Latham and Cook look terrible and we've signed them both, to play at separate times as our overseas!! Just what have we bought here? Two plonkers by the look of things. Wished we'd signed Raval and Elgar instead.

Latham will be fine once he gets out of the NZ coaching set up.

 

[veganbob]

It's my opinion that Santner's bowling will be perennially underrated, and his batting perennially overrated.

His action looks lazy but he actually gets a fair degree of rip, significant bounce, and drift occasionally. He's also pretty accurate for a young bowler. I think Dan Vettori end of career is still a ceiling well above anyone else in the country, tbh. You may call that faint praise but I definitely think we could've used a spinner of that mold on a number of occasions since his retirement.

Santner is a ltd overs specialist. I dont think we should hamper his odi career by picking him for tests.

Pretty disturbing performance overall but not as bad as some are making it. Against the best test sides without taylor and boult we were always going to struggle.
We always struggle at tests vs good teams so I don't see where the big surprise is. As I said earlier, the gap between Sa and NZ is way bigger than the gap between NZ and Bangladesh in tests. We shouldn't expect too much.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

did santner not share his CAD files with you or something veganbob

 

[veganbob]

My NZ ratings for this test

Latham : 1
Raval: 8.5
Williamson: 1
Broom: 2
Nicholls: 9
Neesham : 2
Watling : 6.5
CDG : 6.5
Southee: 7
Patel : 3
Wagner:6

 

[Immenso]

Pretty disturbing performance overall but not as bad as some are making it. Against the best test sides without taylor and boult we were always going to struggle.
We always struggle at tests vs good teams so I don't see where the big surprise is. As I said earlier, the gap between Sa and NZ is way bigger than the gap between NZ and Bangladesh in tests. We shouldn't expect too much.

No surprise from me. But that's the whole point of it being so disturbing.

Every facet of this team is getting visibly worse, by the month. In a steady predictable downward trend.

E.g Raval looks good in debut series v Pak, then awful v Bang.

But has improved again after his horror series v Bang, coincidentally after being out of the team for a month on provincial duties.

 

[Neil Young]

did santner not share his CAD files with you or something veganbob

veganbob saw Santner walk into a steakhouse.

 

[Howsie]

So is that it for Patel yet? You'd have a hard time convincing me he's a better option than Santner (and I'm hardly a roving fan of his bowling). I mean what exactly has Patel done since coming back into this team?

 

[Flem274*]

Just make the team CD plus special guests and I'll be happy even if NZ get smashed again

Hay
Smith
Kane
Ross
Young
Bruce
Watling
Wheeler
Wagner
Ajaz
Boult

Perfect

 

[jcas0167]

I think they will stick with Latham atham, but if they wanted to give him a break is Worker seen as a test opening option? Also maybe Tom Bruce at number 6.

 

[Athlai]

Dropping Latham is a ridiculous idea and shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion table.

 

[vandem]

Dropping Latham is a ridiculous idea and shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion table.

Not unknown to temporarily drop / rest a good batsman who is out of form. Faf was dropped for the final test of the Eng series last summer.

Problem for NZ is that the only serious experienced replacement (Brownlie) only did OK in the ODIs (but much better then Latham) and is currently injured. Shouldn't be picking a young player (Bowes) for a one-off test opener as Raval and Latham should be the opening pair for the next two seasons, barring injury or short term loss of form.

The other experienced openers with runs in this Plunket Shield season are players nearing the end of their career and I suspect would struggle against the SA attack (Wilson, Woodcock, Hay, Papps).

Summary - should consider dropping / resting Latham but no better options so he stays for Hamilton.

 

[vandem]

Assuming you use 2 spinners at Hamilton (and ignoring wild card flip-flops like Sodhi / Nethula for Patel), the other questions about the NZ team are:

- if Boult is fit, do you risk his workload in a 4 bowler attack, or do you have to have a 3rd seamer to share workload

- if you have to have a 3rd seamer, do you go for a not-quite-good-enough all-rounder (de Grandhomme), or do you bat BJ and Santner at 6 and 7 and pick a genuine 3rd quick (so Boult + Southee + Wagner). Long shot is Kuggs, who is a reasonable #8 unlike other 3rd seamer choices, but I don't think NZ Cricket are ready to pick him yet.

- if you don't need a 3rd seamer, who bats at #6? Munro (who can bowl a few overs)? Throw a debut to Young / Bruce? Keep Broom in the XI even if Taylor returns?

 

[Athlai]

We could barely find a replacement for Guptill. Woefully out of form Latham should definitely play in a still live series.

 

[Zinzan]

Dropping Latham is a ridiculous idea and shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion table.

Ordinarily I'd agree, but the fact this is a one-off test, & the last for 6 months, I'd be considering whether he's more likely to score runs in Hamilton than the next best considering where his head's at currently. Not sure I have the answer, but he doesn't even appear to be at 50% capacity.

There's no doubt he's our long term opener, he's scored 5 Test tons at the age of 24, and we know he can play, so it would be a cases of being rested. rather than dropped.

 

[Athlai]

It's a live series? Why are people actually toying with the idea of resting him?

 

[Zinzan]

It's a live series? Why are people actually toying with the idea of resting him?

I don't know enough about the form of other openers except for the Plunket stats, but if there's someone else looking really good, I'd consider it, otherwise I'd probably still play him. I'm just saying I can see why they'd be contemplating things.

 

[Bahnz]

It's a live series? Why are people actually toying with the idea of resting him?

Because his whole game looks garbage. His confidence is obviously completely shot.