***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2017

[straw man]

It about how our batting copes with Boult and Southee, not sure our batting is stronger. Maybe QDK at 7 continues to be the difference? Think we are much stronger in the 3rd/4th seamer department, Abbott would have assured it but, oh well!

Abbott would have loved bowling in NZ conditions - from a cricketing perspective it's very sad he will not be playing.

 

[straw man]

This could be the test series that highlights the problems Boult and Southee have been having the past couple seasons. If we can't strike with the new ball, could be big trouble.

I'd back Lockie if Wags is out, we'll need a point of difference, Henry has no form. And enough of the CDG experiment, we need Neesham back for his relative solidity with the bat. A couple quick fire 20's won't mean jack against the Saffers.

I like Henry but I also feel the not entirely rational pull of the faaaaaaaaaaast which makes me want Ferguson to play, especially if the pitches are flat.

Who am I kidding, of course they'll be flat.

 

[_Ed_]

Wagner would have been but probably isn't fit.

I have faith.

 

[Zinzan]

Lol @ people thinking it will be a whitewash.

Sorry, but SA batting is not as great as we're being lead to believe here. I don't think they're all that much better than NZ's with the exception of de Kock & I also don't think their bowling attack without Abbott will necessarily be that great on NZ decks with the exception of Philander.

I tend to Ghambir with NZ, but this SA side seems to be getting really over-hyped in some of these last few posts.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, with AB still out there's definite potential for a match defining lollapse in the SA batting top order. Though the same is obviously true for NZ.

 

[SteveNZ]

Lol @ people thinking it will be a whitewash.

Sorry, but SA batting is not as great as we're being lead to believe here. I don't think they're all that much better than NZ's with the exception of de Kock & I also don't think their bowling attack without Abbott will necessarily be that great on NZ decks with the exception of Philander.

I tend to Ghambir with NZ, but this SA side seems to be getting really over-hyped in some of these last few posts.

When we say NZ decks, it's going to be the low slow variety, right? Far too dry in our late summer to expect there to be any seam movement (and no groundsman in NZ wants to water too hard, lest they fall into a Napier scenario)

SA's batting order isn't necessarily the most talented but in Elgar, Cook, Faf and Amla they've got guys who are prepared to work bloody hard and are difficult to dislodge on unconducive wickets. That's their major advantage for me. I reckon we're favourites for the ODIs but Test wise they'll look to bat us into the ground, then see how we react to scoreboard pressure (which despite someone pointing to in the false narrative thread, is totally a thing)

 

[NZTailender]

Yeah, with AB still out there's definite potential for a match defining lollapse in the SA batting top order. Though the same is obviously true for NZ.

Well it seemed a bit like that when we got them out for under 300 in the first innings over there recently, like **** we might be in with a chance because their batting looked horrid.

Then they swept us away.

I'm hoping this is a series where one of the non-locks stands up - Raval, Santner, Neesham or #5 pulls off some absolute blinders. I think Boult will have a good series, and we may see Tim turn up for a match. I have a feeling Latham will do his standard three 50s in three tests with some 20s and 30s, whilst Taylor's record against SA isn't flash and Williamson, despite a glorious hundred vs Bangladesh, still seems to be overthinking everything. Watling continues to be out of sorts but this is the kind of series where he pulls out a 120* (250) with someone like Neesham or Taylor dominating at the other end.

 

[Bahnz]

Southee isn't a threat, Wagner would have been but probably isn't fit. And your batting is absolutely miles ahead. Yes Kane is world class at his peak but he's not in great touch, Ross is - we'll really rely on him. Our openers are in awful nick, and 5 down is a bit of a shitstorm.

To be fair to Southee, he has at times looked very good this season. His bowling when he was leading the attack against Pakistan in the 2nd test was vintage Southee, and he showed his ability to open up the SA top order (albeit belatedly) in the second test last year. The problem is that he can't be relied upon to do it with any consistency.

 

[straw man]

Also, when was the last time we saw the ball really swing in NZ? I know Southee has bowled too short or too rubbish at times to get swing, but other bowlers haven't been swinging the ball a lot either.

(not an entirely rhetorical question - there's plenty of cricket I've missed seeing this summer)

 

[Athlai]

To be fair to Southee, he has at times looked very good this season. His bowling when he was leading the attack against Pakistan in the 2nd test was vintage Southee, and he showed his ability to open up the SA top order (albeit belatedly) in the second test last year. The problem is that he can't be relied upon to do it with any consistency.

Reminder that Southee is well on track to taking his most wickets in a season ever.

(Not saying he is bowling at his best, but as Bahnz said hes been looking a bit more likely than he has for a while)

 

[Flem274*]

moving season for southee imo. is he a chris martin standard bowler coming down off an amazing purple patch or is he a class operator in a rut?

one is expendable, the other is a lock for years

edit - and his rattling of SA in the last innings over there was down to the pitch. it was a minefield, and SA made it look like a nuclear testing site when they got the ball.

 

[Zinzan]

When we say NZ decks, it's going to be the low slow variety, right? Far too dry in our late summer to expect there to be any seam movement (and no groundsman in NZ wants to water too hard, lest they fall into a Napier scenario)

SA's batting order isn't necessarily the most talented but in Elgar, Cook, Faf and Amla they've got guys who are prepared to work bloody hard and are difficult to dislodge on unconducive wickets. That's their major advantage for me. I reckon we're favourites for the ODIs but Test wise they'll look to bat us into the ground, then see how we react to scoreboard pressure (which despite someone pointing to in the false narrative thread, is totally a thing)

Just to qualify my statement, I still see SA as favourites for the Test matches, but this idea that they'll annihilate us 3-0 and that it's over before it even begins ain't right IMO.

 

[Flem274*]

we were saying that before australia toured last year. nz always wilt against two teams - SA and Aus.

we're worse against SA tbh. even a scrub team like NZ 2011 stole a test off Aus at home and were competitive for a decent part of the other. Fleming pulled a draw out of his arse against Waugh and some pleb 90s team scraped a draw against Borders team.

historically nz always let SA tickle their belly outside of world cup knock out matches. it's really annoying. the last series nz didn't get pulverised by SA, regardless of SAs quality, was probably when fleming trolled grame smith all series in 2004 or so.

3-0 to SA. kane, taylor, watling, wagner and boult can't do everything, especially since only one of that group is not out of nick or injured

 

[Zinzan]

Yep, we've never beaten SA in a Test series, our toughest opponent by a distance from that perspective. Best effort being our 2-2 away draw in '61 & the '04 1-1 draw, which we should have damn well won, but let ourselves down in that last test & Kirsten and Smith played well to chase 270 IIRC. Still pisses me off that we let that series slip.

 

[StephenZA]

SA team has it batting vulnerabilities, but with QDK at 7 it tends to look after itself over. 1 bad innings in a match is possible, 2 unlikely. Out bowling on the other had is always a threat.

 

[Marius]

SA team has it batting vulnerabilities, but with QDK at 7 it tends to look after itself over. 1 bad innings in a match is possible, 2 unlikely. Out bowling on the other had is always a threat.

Bra T is our weak link in the batting at the moment, but he made some runs in his last Sunfoil game, so hopefully he's getting back into some form.

 

[StephenZA]

Bra T is our weak link in the batting at the moment, but he made some runs in his last Sunfoil game, so hopefully he's getting back into some form.

Hopefully he shows some form. He has not kicked on when he has got in for the Tests... but played some critical knocks in Aus to get us out of trouble, then had a dire series against SL.. At the beginning of the Aus series, in order it was Cook, Duminy, Faf (who had been made captain) and Bra T (love that name) who had questions marks. Now it would be Bra T, Duminy..... and well nobody else at this stage except maybe Amla! Not actually a bad position to be in; thing is I want de Bruyn in the team, he apparently has problems against spin but would really like to see him at int level..

As a special mention Faf has been such a brilliant late bloomer, both originally getting into the SA setup, and now being in the form of his life. It would be great if he keeps up this form as that would totally counteract the decline of Amla, deVillers being missing and keep the SA batting lineup solid.

 

[Heboric]

Proteas ODI Squad for New Zealand

AB de Villiers (Titans, ODI captain), Faf du Plessis (Titans, T20 captain), Hashim Amla (Cape Cobras), Farhaan Behardien (Titans), Quinton de Kock (Titans), JP Duminy (Cape Cobras), Imran Tahir (Dolphins), David Miller (Knights), Chris Morris (Titans), Wayne Parnell (Cape Cobras), Dane Paterson (Cape Cobras), Andile Phehlukwayo (Dolphins), Dwaine Pretorius (Highveld Lions), Kagiso Rabada (Highveld Lions), Tabraiz Shamsi (Titans)

No De Bruyn or Morkel

 

[StephenZA]

Proteas ODI Squad for New Zealand No De Bruyn or Morkel

No change from SL series... I`m good with that for now.

 

[Dendarii]

No change from SL series...

Except Paterson in for Ngidi, so presumably he won't have recovered from his injury in time. But it looks like we've got a settled squad, which is good thing ahead of the Champions Trophy,