Alastair Cook steps down as England captain

[Jono]

Dhoni actually was defensive and was still praised as being attacking for no reason though. Unless 'being not English' is enough reason to call someone attacking, which in many cases it is. He was the first one I thought of

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/52350-vaughan-strauss-dhoni.html

Edit: Precient from PEWS



aka the Warne Commentary fallacy

You can't use that one point from Vaughan as the rule though. You'll need more than that to convince me that Cook is hardly judged as captain because of his bating style. I bet there is an article from Chappell panning the **** out of Dhoni after the 4-0 4-0 losses as a defensive captain.

I've seen you mention it about Kohli in a few threads so I know you think its a thing. It may be when they first captain but it doesn't take long for people to realise when an attacking batsman is also a defensive captain.

 

[GIMH]

Bringing him back = 2012 India win. I think Peter Miller noted that in an article today on Cook's captaincy.

agreed

 

[Fenil]

You can't use that one point from Vaughan as the rule though. You'll need more than that to convince me that Cook is hardly judged as captain because of his bating style. I bet there is an article from Chappell panning the **** out of Dhoni after the 4-0 4-0 losses as a defensive captain.

I've seen you mention it about Kohli in a few threads so I know you think its a thing. It may be when they first captain but it doesn't take long for people to realise when an attacking batsman is also a defensive captain.

I tend to agree on Howe_zat's point that Dhoni was indeed a defensive captain. His usual tactics regardless of the situation were having a 7-2 field while one of the two fielders on the leg side stationed at long on. Teams used to milk the already poor bowling attack for easy single down the wicket or if they pitched up for a boundary. There wasn't much room for bowlers except for them to way away from the stumps and hope for the best.

 

[Fenil]

I think you missed my point.

People are saying Cook gets called a defensive captain because of his defensive batting, and Kohli gets called an aggressive captain because of his aggressive batting - i.e. a captain's batting style misleads fans into thinking they captain that way.

I am merely countering that by pointing out that Ponting and Dhoni cannot be called defensive batsmen yet were panned all the time for being defensive captains.

I completely agree with you on the highlighted point. I just couldn't frame the sentence better like OverratedSanity did.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Especially when we won away to India three years before Bayliss was coach. They were some long runs.

I'm not saying it helped you win...

 

[Pothas]

Jono has a point, it is obviously not the only reason Cook got called defensive but I find it very hard to believe that his batting had no influence on the perception of him as a captain.

 

[Jono]

Jono has a point, it is obviously not the only reason Cook got called defensive but I find it very hard to believe that his batting had no influence on the perception of him as a captain.

Probably. There are multiple factors right? Like I'm sure Cook's relatively mild mannered nature and body language played a part in him being deemed defensive, compared to Kohli who is clearly very emotional, sledges a lot, attacks the opposition in press conferences and is generally highly charged on the field.

I guess many things can mislead or give an impression that may not be actually true.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I think the way he approached captaincy had an effect on how he was perceived as a captain too. He was quite defensive.

Ponting was an attacking batsman, but still came across as quite a defensive captain. He sat on the game a lot, seemingly reluctant to make too bold a decision. Whether he lost the Ashes or won them 5-0, that didn't change. Although it's less noticeable when you win.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Root doesn't fill me with confidence after the bits and bobs I've heard of his captaincy. But ultimately if he is made captain it will still obviously be Stokes who does all the leadership stuff, as he pretty much has done over the past 6-12 months.

The main question is what happens when Stokes is not playing - having an alternative answer to England losing would be good. I'd much rather Root did all the media bollocks. So it's really about whether he has a cricket brain.

 

[Jono]

If only Stokes came from the right type of family

 

[harsh.ag]

Root doesn't fill me with confidence after the bits and bobs I've heard of his captaincy. But ultimately if he is made captain it will still obviously be Stokes who does all the leadership stuff, as he pretty much has done over the past 6-12 months.

The main question is what happens when Stokes is not playing - having an alternative answer to England losing would be good. I'd much rather Root did all the media bollocks. So it's really about whether he has a cricket brain.

 

[Shri]

On Cook's captaincy tenure, I actually think it was quite good overall. When you're captain for a long time you are bound to have massive ups and downs, with huge series wins and then shockers. The whole KP incident is a stain that it occurred during his tenure but it was more an ECB issue than a Cook issue. When you remove that, he won the Ashes at home and importantly had two great away victories vs. India and SA. With that comes the 5-0 spanking in Aust and 4-0 loss in India, but I think what is good about Cook is he didn't have a long period of poor results. He kept England pretty steady.

It's good that he has stepped down. Captaincy has an expiry date and he was in the seat a long time. He can now concentrate on continuing to be an excellent batsman but ultimately falling short of Sachin's test run tally like I've said he will for many years now.

I am excited about Root (hopefully) being made captain so the Fab 4 is therefore officially complete. Top 4 bats in the world, and all captains of their team. But I just hope the ECB thinks Root comes from the "right type of family" so he can therefore get the job.

You forgot about losing a test to Ban.

 

[Daemon]

Root doesn't fill me with confidence after the bits and bobs I've heard of his captaincy. But ultimately if he is made captain it will still obviously be Stokes who does all the leadership stuff, as he pretty much has done over the past 6-12 months.

The main question is what happens when Stokes is not playing - having an alternative answer to England losing would be good. I'd much rather Root did all the media bollocks. So it's really about whether he has a cricket brain.

Cook is still around though. It'll be like Clarke/Ponting I suppose.

 

[91Jmay]

Anderson/Broad should take a lot of blame for Cook being seen as a negative captain with his field settings. They are obsessed with not going for runs, and regularly argued with him about close catchers. Now you could say he is the captain and should have taken control (a fair critique) but lots of captains let their best bowlers set fields.

 

[91Jmay]

Which ones? He always had good players.

He once captained a side that included Liam Plunkett, Chris Jordan, Sam Robson, Gary Ballance and a dead Matt Prior.

 

[Bijed]

He once captained a side that included Liam Plunkett, Chris Jordan, Sam Robson, Gary Ballance and a dead Matt Prior.

Tbf Ballance was doing well at that point, though you're right re the others. On the whole, I'd say he's generally not suffered for lack of good players, though we've always had a bit of a no-hoper or two around the side, I suppose.


What are people's guesses for who'll be the next vice captain? Stokes?

 

[honestbharani]

There would have been no KP saga under Cook if he hadn't had the temerity to bring him back into the fold in the first place. Like you say Jono, can't really hold that against cook (unless you're piers Morgan)

Also wouldn't have what seems to be the defining moment of his captaincy career for almost everyone.. You seriously think he would have survived the 5-0 down under if he hadn't had credit from the India series?

 

[NZTailender]

"Okay, so driving isn't your thing. But that's okay. You're not that kind of batsman . What you're gonna do is stand there while the bowler gets exhausted from over-bowling."



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[Adders]

Kohli gets called an aggressive captain because of his aggressive batting - i.e. a captain's batting style misleads fans into thinking they captain that way.

Not only fans apparently, looks like cricket writers can get fooled too........

Kohli's aggressive captaincy and batting was instrumental in the series victory against England.

Who is the world's best batsman? Ricky Ponting says it's Virat Kohli

Did have a little chuckle when I read that.

 

[indiaholic]

"Okay, so driving isn't your thing. But that's okay. You're not that kind of batsman . What you're gonna do is stand there while the bowler gets exhausted from over-bowling."



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